Does anyone NOT support teachers’ strikes?

[Notbeinggoadybut]

I’ve got mixed views. Support that they, as all public sector workers, need a pay rise. And schools need more funding (but the NEU hasn’t badged this as a public reason which is a mistake IMP).

But 12% is a lot when you’re on a £40k salary. The TA’s deserve 12%, the nurses and ambulance drivers with dire conditions and worse salaries deserve 12%. But not from a starting salary of £40k.

Also public services can be dire. I work in one, it can be bordering on a joke and in so many ways such a waste of money. I will be striking on the 1st of February. But I don’t think it’s right - I voted against the strike. I want a pay rise, but don’t feel like it’s right to ask for 10% and strike if I don’t get it.

[mamma2013]

I apologise but I've not read the full thread as it just expands quicker than I can read and I need to work.

Thank you for answering my previous question about why you still do the job with rubbish conditions. I get that as my job earns far less and its tough going but I do it because I enjoy it and have passion so I understand totally.

The thing I still don't get (and apologies if I've missed it being answered somewhere) but what does everyone want to strike to achieve in relation to the issues? Realisticallyspeaking of course..

Pay rise would encourage people to want to be teachers. But then the long hours and bad conditions still stand.

What needs to be done to prevent physical abuse in schools? What needs to change to make it so you don't have to work from 5am till gone midnight in most cases?

Again, because people get so heated..I'm genuinely asking because I want to understand.

[ichundich]

I don't support the strikes because I think they are timed badly only 2 years after lockdown, during which my son already lost 2 terms of education. Besides many school activities, clubs etc. have still not resumed since the pandemic, so his learning is still being affected. Paying everyone a higher salary is not how the government should address the rising inflation.

[Stationsofthecross]

I personally don’t support it - but I support their right to strike.

None of the teachers in my children’s school are going to strike tho - we’ve been told.

[MaybeIWillFuckOffThen]

The amount of money they make is frankly irrelevant (although I think it's worth considering the £40k is chickenfeed compared to what people with equivalent responsibility in most other sectors get). They're at the top of the payscale because they've progressed and gained experience and contributed. The increase is required not because they're suddenly doing loads more but because the context has moved around that payscale - cost of living has increased and so people can't maintain their standard of living on the same money. By holding down public sector pay, we are diminishing not just the actual felt living standards, but also the status and importance, of teachers in society. Has their work become less important, less challenging? Are they less essential, less educated, less skillful? If not, what possible justification is there for letting their salary slide into being one of subsistence just because others are worse off?

[BankOfDave]

@RollerGirl7

I don't.

Looking at it without emotion. Giving out pay rises like this is going to inflame inflation further and that is not a good thing.

It's heartless but I feel like we need to do everything we can to bring down inflation and that will be better for the greater good as then our economy will recover and then ideally we'll have more money to plough back into public services.

Appreciate that some people will look at this less logically and more emotionally. The fact that there's poor and well deserving families struggling and using food banks is certainly not right, but I think we should take the longer term, greater good view imo and focus on inflation (Which won't be helped by pushing so many people's wages up).


Another thought is I think people should absolutely be able to strike over conditions such as not enough teachers in the classroom. Not enough supports. Not enough government funding in general and I think that would be far better than being able to strike overpay. In my mind you don't like you pay you go get another job.

Public sector pay increases do not cause inflation in the way you’ve stated. That is a convenient mistruth Rishi would like you to believe and any v light reading on the subject will explain why in the simplest economic terms.

Inflation we currently have is driven by supply side shortages mainly: COVID, the war, low productivity (and pay increases in the private sector are far more likely a cause of inflation).

So whether any of us agree with the strikes or not this simplistic narrative needs to stop.

I’m not trying to target your post specifically other than I think it’s important people understand this point.

[Lovelysausagedogscrumpy]

@Obbydoo

This is spot on. The pensions across the public sector are utterly ridiculous. There have been attempts to try to even the balance of the package (I.e increase the salary and reduce the pension) as this would give people more money in their pockets and allow basic salaries to be more competitive against the private sector. But, of course, the unions said a flat no, despite their members not necessarily agreeing with them. The other issue it causes is it encourages people to retire early - why wouldn't you with a big pension?! But that means we lose experienced people far too early, pay them pensions far too early and people stop paying income tax/NI far too early.

Sadly no government would ever have the guts to change it so we are stuck with it.

I was a civil servant, and civil service final salary schemes have been closed to new entrants for years. And early retirement wasn’t an option in the civil service unless on health grounds.

[Tintackedsea]

It's a negotiation. The union asks for something and then the government suggests a lower figure. They discuss it and come to an accord. This government doesn't negotiate because they have no idea how to govern. Their incompetence and rank stupidity is what has led to wide spread strikes across a number of sectors. No one wants to strike. No one wants to lose a day's pay. No one wants to inconvenience the public. But if the government won't talk and won't listen and won't address the legitimate concerns then where does that leave us? Do we just keep going until the system is so hollowed out it breaks down altogether?

[MaybeIWillFuckOffThen]

But if the government won't talk and won't listen and won't address the legitimate concerns then where does that leave us? Do we just keep going until the system is so hollowed out it breaks down altogether?

I think that's their idea, yes. This is the problem with being governed by people so rich they have literally zero stake in the survival of the system. What's it to Rishi and co if the NHS, state school system, public transport falls over? They and anyone they actually care about don't use them, never have and never would.

[user1496146479]

@safeplanet

Why are people supporting nurses but not teachers?

I think it's because nurses have more responsibility in terms of life & death. And the physicality of the role eg shift work plus their pension isn't as good & less time off.

Definitely this!

[BlackFriday]

@Rollergirl, "Another thought is I think people should absolutely be able to strike over conditions such as not enough teachers in the classroom. Not enough supports. Not enough government funding in general and I think that would be far better than being able to strike overpay. In my mind you don't like you pay you go get another job."

So,let me get this straight; you think action should be taken about lack of teachers in the classroom butin the very same paragraph say that teachers should go and get another job if they don't ike the pay?

Good God, this thread is an eye-opener.

[Perfect28]

@BlackFriday it goes to show how important it is to be educated doesn't it.

[Perfect28]

@MaybeIWillFuckOffThen

But if the government won't talk and won't listen and won't address the legitimate concerns then where does that leave us? Do we just keep going until the system is so hollowed out it breaks down altogether?

I think that's their idea, yes. This is the problem with being governed by people so rich they have literally zero stake in the survival of the system. What's it to Rishi and co if the NHS, state school system, public transport falls over? They and anyone they actually care about don't use them, never have and never would.

That is exactly spot on. This is a deliberate and malicious attack on public services with the intent of dismantling them entirely. They aren't even pretending any more.

[RollerGirl7]

@BankOfDave I understand the issues which have led to inflation and that it isn't do to public sector pay increases however in my opinion (and I'm not a total lay person in the area of economics) however I believe widespread public sector increases will further aggravate the inflation issue we have.

@BlackFriday I do think if pay and/or conditions are so bad people should leave and that the natural consequence of doing that will mean they will have to be long-term changes to pay and/or conditions in order to attract more talent. I do acknowledge that's going to make things very uncomfortable in the short term as we have a shortfall of teachers.

I don't think striking for pay is the right thing to fo as it's a short, sharp shock, and doesn't often lead to long-term changes ands I've said in my opinion makes the economic situation worse.

I believe industrial action aimed at introducing real long-term changes that couldn't be rolled back or made ineffective (as these pay rises will be if the economy continues the way it is ) such as minimum safety levels, smaller classes sizes, etc could be worthwhile, as stikes at least capture the public attention and it's public opinion that needs to be swayed in these matters.

@Perfect28 Just my opinion, on an opinion bored, in response to the op you asked for reasons people might not be supporting the strikes. But feel free to try and make bitchy comments about people being uneducated, says more about you than it does me

[EarthlyNightshade]

I wonder if any of the people not supporting the strikes have read this thread and thought: Teaching looks great, I am going to apply.
If not, then why not?
Teachers are leaving in their droves, everyone should be supporting those who want to stay and makes schools better for all. I can't see any option other than striking.

[Tintackedsea]

But "natural consequences" haven't led to change. Retention is a real issue in education and in health. Recruiting staff is nigh on impossible. If these were private companies they would have put the pay up long ago.

Practically no one can do their job until teachers have done theirs. It's the foundation of a modern, civilised, democratic society that people have an education. Not just practical skills like reading and writing but also social and cooperative skills and questioning and thinking. Everything relies on education.

This government has no interest in the wellbeing (physical, mental or social) of the country. We are a commodity. An opportunity to make money. They are venal and rotten. The strikes represent a breakdown of governance.

[noblegiraffe]

I do think if pay and/or conditions are so bad people should leave and that the natural consequence of doing that will mean they will have to be long-term changes to pay and/or conditions in order to attract more talent.

That’s literally the point we are at. So many teachers have left and hardly anyone is signing up - the system is collapsing.

Glad you agree there needs to be a long term change to pay and conditions, that’s what the striking teachers think too.

[Forever42]

I do think if pay and/or conditions are so bad people should leave and that the natural consequence of doing that will mean they will have to be long-term changes to pay and/or conditions in order to attract more talent.

Logically, yes. But instead the consequence is that the government has decided it's fine for children to be unable to access an adequate education.

I just can't understand it. OK, maybe most Conservative MPs don't personally use the state education system but the country as a whole needs a well-educated population in order to remain economically productive. The government wants to the UK to be top of the world in scientific discovery, R&D, technology, the arts, finance etc but puts nothing into developing the workforce required for the future. It's just going to be another factor in the steady decline of the UK. Such short-term thinking is baffling.

[Bettyboop3]

I didn't really care either way until now but i have staff members who won't be coming into work next Wednesday now their children won't be in school!! They have also given me a further 3 dates.

[Forever42]

@Bettyboop3

I didn't really care either way until now but i have staff members who won't be coming into work next Wednesday now their children won't be in school!! They have also given me a further 3 dates.

Well it wouldn't be a very effective strike if nobody was inconvenienced.

[Bettyboop3]

@Forever42

Well it wouldn't be a very effective strike if nobody was inconvenienced.

I know 🙄 it just hadn't occurred to me that it would be me!!

[fitzwilliamdarcy]

Even if the miracle takes place and the government goes “oh my goodness there’s no teachers, we best increase conditions and pay!” … it takes time to train them. There could be years of school closures in the interim. That’s why striking is the chosen last straw option - it reminds everyone of what happens if those workers aren’t there.

[Sartre]

Starting salary is closer to 25k so unsure where you’ve got 40k from. They have my full support. I am a teacher but different union so not striking. Gran was a teacher for 35 years, they have her full support and my two cousins are teachers and are striking. Everyone should be paid more.

[ichundich]

@EarthlyNightshade

I wonder if any of the people not supporting the strikes have read this thread and thought: Teaching looks great, I am going to apply.
If not, then why not?
Teachers are leaving in their droves, everyone should be supporting those who want to stay and makes schools better for all. I can't see any option other than striking.

Are you always so black and white? You don't support the strikes, ergo you must train and apply as a teacher 🤦‍♀️.

[Icouldbehappy]

And I’m striking for better pay. No other reason.