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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think if the state pension age of 68 is being brought forward.........

384 replies

JenniferBooth · 25/01/2023 16:52

then they need to stop moaning and whining when there are no family members (read women)
to provide unpaid care so elderly relatives can be discharged from hospital
You cant have it both ways.

OP posts:
OutForBreakfast · 26/01/2023 13:13

@safeplanet I was talking about 14/15 year olds. My dad was in full time work at 15, I was 16 in full time work. We were both expected to work and act like adults. Now they are still at school and if doing a Saturday job there are lots of safeguarding procedures - they are not treated like an adult.
I will retire at 67.

Thomasina79 · 26/01/2023 13:19

I rather resent the assumption that people. My age, 67, have not been paying in enough. I worked all my life, never claimed anything and paid into the NI scheme and my private NHS pension which was £160 a month. My pension is still peanuts.

also I think there is a lot of difference in the health of those in their early 60s compared to the late 60s. I retired six months ago having barely had a day off sick for years, but have been diagnosed with arthritis, so would find it difficult to work now anyway. I wish I could have retired at 60 like my mum did and have had those extra active years!

RaininSummer · 26/01/2023 13:20

I will have done 45 years by the time I am 67 so the 4 missed ni years whilst at uni are not important.

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 26/01/2023 13:20

We should just scrap the state pension for boomers and xers IMHO.

It's no my generations fault they've simultaneously failed to plan for their retirements properly AND fucked the economy and planet so the generations coming up behind them are in a much worse economic and environmental situation than they were. Yet we are the ones who will be punished as a result.

With all the hatred and contempt they pour our way it's somewhat ironic that they also expect us to fund their golden lifestyles for 20+ years after retirement at the expense of our future.

Everanewbie · 26/01/2023 13:37

In answer directly to your OP, toggling the state pension age to fill the gaps in social care would be incredibly poor value for money for the tax payer.

The cold reality is that other than a recent small blip (due to covid and lockdown harms) the general trend for life expectancy is on the up. A more accurate measure of the problem would be life expectancy from age 65. Once you are at or around state pension age, life expectancy is 18-20 years so the from birth figures are largely irrelevant here.

We are now increasing state pensions year on year by a large amount due to inflation, and there are more and more people in receipt with less and less in proportion paying in. Without further tax increases and it is just not sustainable.

It is a very difficult sell here because there are lots of conflicting expenses for people, particularly but not exclusively for young people, but if you don't want to be forced to work until state pension age you will need to save to provide for yourself. For some people this will be easier than others, those in the NHS/teaching etc. have very generous schemes where benefits can be taken (rightly at a reduced rate) long before state retirement age, however others may need to make greater sacrifices. I know it feels unfair, and those who have made plans for certain ages will rightly feel aggrieved but given the circumstances we find ourselves in I see little option but to act.

My old dad for example had a humble job and we always seemed poorer than guys who you suspected had lower salaries, my builder dad friends had new cars and wore designer gear. But my dads sacrifices allowed him to retire at 58 while the builder dads are still grafting and blaming the government for how unfair it all is.

OutForBreakfast · 26/01/2023 13:40

@Everanewbie None of my relatives have lived that long. Social class matters a lot.
I agree paying social carers may make more sense financially, but the government then has to accept that responsibility and not constantly trying to talk about families picking up the care like in the old days. I am sick of that narrative. I will not retire until 67 and I work full time. I can't do what my mum did when she was my age.

Badbadbunny · 26/01/2023 13:45

safeplanet · 26/01/2023 13:05

Employers are legally bound to set up workplace pension schemes and inform their employees. In fact, there's "auto enrolment" which means employees will be automatically enrolled into the employers' pension scheme unless they opt out.

But the contribution is shit & salaries are crap so many opt out simply to afford housing.

Yes, but my reply was to someone who was saying we should be making youngsters aware of having to make their own provision. I was replying to say they already should be aware. Your points are valid as to why lots don't, not that they weren't aware that they should be.

Spendonsend · 26/01/2023 13:48

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 26/01/2023 13:20

We should just scrap the state pension for boomers and xers IMHO.

It's no my generations fault they've simultaneously failed to plan for their retirements properly AND fucked the economy and planet so the generations coming up behind them are in a much worse economic and environmental situation than they were. Yet we are the ones who will be punished as a result.

With all the hatred and contempt they pour our way it's somewhat ironic that they also expect us to fund their golden lifestyles for 20+ years after retirement at the expense of our future.

It is strange really, gambling your whole financial security on the generations below wishing to carry on with the arrangement. I see it worked for the boomers because they are such a large group they still have economic and political power. Im not sure how generation x will fare when the boomers pass. I believe there are more millenials than x, they could out vote them.

Badbadbunny · 26/01/2023 13:53

OutForBreakfast · 26/01/2023 13:10

I keep hearing how people will not live as long as the older generation because of diabetes and lifestyle issues AND that we are going to have a big growth in lots of older people as people are living longer.

Population growth due to immigration and fewer children dying due to better healthcare, vaccinations, etc. More people are living to adulthood and retirement, but arguably, they're not living quite as long as previous generation who made it to retirement. So more retired people, but maybe not living quite so long, but still means a higher number of OAPs claiming state pension and requiring healthcare. And diabetes and other lifestyle related illnesses often result in several years of expensive health and social care, so maybe a shorter period of retirement, but a more expensive period, compared with healthier people who live a bit longer but don't generally need much health/social care.

restisall · 26/01/2023 13:59

If they made four day working weeks the norm (I know it’s not possible in every sector) it would be much more palatable to work longer!

MarshaBradyo · 26/01/2023 14:01

Spendonsend · 26/01/2023 13:48

It is strange really, gambling your whole financial security on the generations below wishing to carry on with the arrangement. I see it worked for the boomers because they are such a large group they still have economic and political power. Im not sure how generation x will fare when the boomers pass. I believe there are more millenials than x, they could out vote them.

But that means millennials and Z wouldn’t get a pension and not all will be able to save or own homes to fund their retirement.

Badbadbunny · 26/01/2023 14:03

Spendonsend · 26/01/2023 13:48

It is strange really, gambling your whole financial security on the generations below wishing to carry on with the arrangement. I see it worked for the boomers because they are such a large group they still have economic and political power. Im not sure how generation x will fare when the boomers pass. I believe there are more millenials than x, they could out vote them.

That's a very real possibility. At the moment, the "grey" vote is enough to win/lose elections so both parties are frightened of alienating them. If there's a big enough "bulge" in population at a younger age, the politicians may well find that they have to get the votes of a different demographic to win elections.

After all, it's always "floating" voters who determine who wins an election, like Blair targeting "Mondeo Man" to win the 1997 election! Those with lifelong/strong political views will always vote they way they've always voted, so little point in targeting them.

When the political researchers find that there's a different demographic who have the power to influence election results, the political parties will target those instead. Just look how successful the Tories were in targeting their promises and resources on the Northern Labour Seats in the last election to win the "red wall" and likewise with Brexit when Farrage (and then Cameron) realised that a significant number of people wanted out of the EU.

larchforest · 26/01/2023 14:48

Welll the state pension age for me (currently aged 60) is already 67, so when they start talking about bringing forward the increase in the state pension age to 68, then they aren't exactly telling the whole truth, are they? They are only changing it by one year, and it has been known about for a long time already. Hardly new news.

dodobookends · 26/01/2023 14:53

FrownedUpon · 25/01/2023 17:10

Just because the state pension age will be 68, it doesn’t mean you have to work until then. Many people are saving their own pensions so they can retire when they want. Relying on the state pension is really not a good idea.

Marvellous idea - except there are a few million people who simply cannot afford to make ends meet as it is, never mind putting money into a pension. I'm sure they'd love to, and they know they should, but they can't.

SueVineer · 26/01/2023 15:11

Blossomtoes · 25/01/2023 20:07

The current generation of pensioners is getting their pension at 66.

Emm no, many got it at 60 and even if those who got it at 66 are getting it earlier than younger generations who will be 68. That’s how numbers work.

Orangepolentacake · 26/01/2023 15:14

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 25/01/2023 17:30

They're clearly trying to dial back the pension principles to how they were when it began, in that it was deliberately planned for an age over the average age when people (probably men, at the time) would have died.

Kind of making it like an extra reward for having the good fortune of not being disabled, not becoming seriously ill, not growing up or living in deprivation circumstances that are well-known to shorten your life expectancy and also not having to do a manual job. See also: school attendance awards.

Effectively, it's privileged wealthy, healthy, able-bodied people deciding that they're such jolly good sorts, they should be given a big thankyou stipend from society for being absolute top bananas.

When you're in the position that I (and countless others) are in, with disability, serious health conditions and other adverse circumstances, it paradoxically becomes both more of a gross insult and less to have to bother caring about anyway, the more they wang on about pension ages going up - usually alongside talk of how 'we're ALL living so much longer now' - as it's already well over the age that we are going to reach in the first place, so it's all academic.

If they brought in a ruling that people blessed with amazing health would have to work until they were 85 or 90 before getting a pension, there would be (not unjustified) outrage; but that's effectively the deliberate active choice they've set in stone for millions of us who are in a much less advantageous position. However, to be fair, they're still letting us pay our taxes towards the pensions that other people will eventually receive....

I sympathise.
I’ve been blessed with a couple of long term/chronic conditions, plus the errors of my youth, that mean I’m frankly probably not going to see 70 and quality of life won’t be great.

I’ve decided I’m not depriving myself in the present for a future I’m very unlikely to have

Blossomtoes · 26/01/2023 15:17

SueVineer · 26/01/2023 15:11

Emm no, many got it at 60 and even if those who got it at 66 are getting it earlier than younger generations who will be 68. That’s how numbers work.

And those who retired at 60, ie before 2016, are getting paid a lower rate pension. That’s how the state pension works.

SueVineer · 26/01/2023 15:28

Penguinsaregreat · 26/01/2023 12:53

Yes lots of todays pensioners were working full time at 14/15 and paying NI contributions.
I don’t blame any of them for retiring at 60.

Today’s pensioners were born in the 60s and started work in the 80s. Stop talking rubbish!

averylongtimeago · 26/01/2023 15:29

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 26/01/2023 13:20

We should just scrap the state pension for boomers and xers IMHO.

It's no my generations fault they've simultaneously failed to plan for their retirements properly AND fucked the economy and planet so the generations coming up behind them are in a much worse economic and environmental situation than they were. Yet we are the ones who will be punished as a result.

With all the hatred and contempt they pour our way it's somewhat ironic that they also expect us to fund their golden lifestyles for 20+ years after retirement at the expense of our future.

So: what do you expect us to do?
DH has just retired (66) and I will be retiring in 3 years- we have paid enough NI to get the "new" state pension of £185 per week. This is after a working life of 50 year. Our private pension pays absolute peanuts- not even worth having. There are millions like us- working class, on low or moderate wages, who had no chance of saving the 100s of thousands needed to fund retirement without a state pension.

What should we all do in your scenario? Just starve to death on the streets? Should we be euthanised like an old dog because we are an inconvenience?
Or perhaps bring back the workhouse?

LookingOldTheseDays · 26/01/2023 15:32

SueVineer · 26/01/2023 15:28

Today’s pensioners were born in the 60s and started work in the 80s. Stop talking rubbish!

Someone who started work in 1980, age 16, would be 59 now. Even if they were 18 in 1980, they'd only be 61 now.

shinynewapple22 · 26/01/2023 15:38

The question of whether retirement age has an effect on a family's position to care for elderly relatives obviously depends on what age people give birth . For a lot of people (myself included), the years for caring for our elderly parents were during our 50s - often more than 10 years before retirement age.

shinynewapple22 · 26/01/2023 16:03

@SueVineer "The current generation got their state pension at a lower age than future generations and have a far longer time retired than the younger generation will get. "
A lot of older people started work earlier - quite common to start work at 16 when I left school - not so common now .

The length of time people have retired depends on their individual health .

@SueVineer " Today’s pensioners were born in the 60s and started work in the 80s. Stop talking rubbish"*

Stop talking rubbish ??? Grin before you make such rash statements I think you need to learn to count. Nobody who was born in the 1960s has yet reached the age of state pension . However- as I stated above - we often started work at 16 which is less common today .

Blossomtoes · 26/01/2023 16:03

SueVineer · 26/01/2023 15:28

Today’s pensioners were born in the 60s and started work in the 80s. Stop talking rubbish!

Someone born in 1960 is now 62 - four years short of getting their pension. So much for knowing how numbers work. 🙄

user1471439240 · 26/01/2023 16:22

Its actually a sneaky way of putting back paying public sector pensions. Many post 2014 career average schemes are linked to state retirement age. This will hit many more people going forward as the older ones retire

verdantverdure · 26/01/2023 16:35

What, all our people who died during covid didn't save enough billions on pension?

200,000 people not claiming 30 years of pension each must be a fortune.

No wonder the government have got anti covid air filtration in their workplaces and we don't.

Each one of us whose mum or dad dies is a saving isn't it?