People should stop blaming young people for not knowing stuff they've not been taught

[Echobelly]

I see quite a lot of social media posts and articles about 'Generation Z don't know how to do X' or 'Gen Z don't know how to behave in an office' or (and this has been going of for years) 'Young people starting their careers lack job skills'

A recent one has been complaining they basically don't know how to use a desktop or computer filing system because they all use phones/apps. Well that's hardly their fault workplaces are still using the stuff most people have grown up with, and that those people have then assumed everyone will know how to use it automatically. Just because 'the kids' are social media savvy doesn't actually mean they're automatically 'tech savvy'.

And with the rules of workplace and flexibility changing, again it's not suprising if some young people misjudge what's OK. I think workplaces may need to spell it out a bit more what might need to be cleared with a manager and what's OK to make a call on. Those of us who've been in the office for decades (sorry, can only talk about office-based work from my own experience) know how to make that call, but someone who's not worked before might not realise. Especially if coming out of uni where, let's face it, some people play fast and loose with their attendence at things, especially now when lots of stuff is available on a recording.

Like we knew how to do everything when started our careers, or it's school/higher ed's task to teach kids how to be 'Marketing executives' or 'Junior content managers' - no employers, that's your job! I do think people are unfair on young people like this.

I do agree. I blame the demise of the Saturday job and places (understandably) not able to take work experience / volunteering roles due to DBS checks etc.

dh has apprentices. They all struggle to talk to customers or answer the phone.

It’s smug ageism. Horrible.

I started work, albeit a Saturday job, when I was 16 and I've ALWAYS had a good work ethic. I know I'm supposed to be on time, respectful and have responsibility for my actions. I take initiative. I can't always blame it on someone/something else. What I have found these days is that young people are not as considerate of others. They don't take responsibility, or have initiative. Ok, they don't know something....LEARN.

They expect to get high end jobs quick and don't want to graft. Not everyone is like that by the way. So yes young people don't know things, but bloody use your brain and think, well how can I change that?

I truly hate "well, in my day....."

Times move on. Stop measuring something today by its value of 40 years ago.

Yes, I've noticed with my own kids that in an era where people don't have a landline (or use it much if they do), they didn't really know how to politely talk on the phone, like if they were younger and rang a friend's parents, they'd just say 'Hi, is X there?' and not say hello to the parent and ask how they are (obviously, we discussed that when I realised) or they'd answer a phone and say 'I'll just go to Mum' or whatever. When I was much younger than them, I was answering the phone saying 'Hello [phone number] and taking messages. But they haven't had that experience.

It's interesting about 'Saturday jobs', I don't know if they exist at all these days - DH's niece was talking about wanting to work at a certain fashion chain but her mum was saying she wasn't sure just weekend shifts exist anymore and I think she might be right, that maybe zero-hours contracts have killed that, but I may be wrong.

How do you gather your opinion of young people in the workplace? Is it from the pool of younger people you work with? Young family members?

I agree but I don’t think it’s just Gen Z I think work culture has always been full of this .

Classic jobsworth behaviour. People who have been doing the same job at work for 20 years on autopilot, requiring no critical thought or creativity at all, sneering at others who just haven’t yet learned.

I have to say as well that much as I am a supporter of unions and organisation in the workplace I think the unions are shocking for this. Erecting arbitrary barriers to prevent change and to make it harder for new staff to learn stuff in order to protect older workers.

Not sure I agree that young people don't know how to use a desktop/laptop. My DD is in Yr3 & uses computers at school & uses our laptops at home - she's learning how to use applications & how to use the computer filing system. How have all these young people made it through primary, secondary, college & possibly Uni without having learnt this though?

I actually think part of it is the very coddled world children grow up in now.

Working in a school, I'm expected to cater for every child's needs. You don't like reading out loud? Ok you don't have to. You don't want to speak to me today? Ok. You can't take your coat off because you feel anxious without it? Fine.

School was always designed to create workers. School can't perform that function anymore if the kids get to decide what they want to do and when to do it.

I've never had a job where the employer gives a shit what I want to do or not do or where I'm allowed to let my anxiety get in the way of just getting on with it, without the risk of HR involvement or getting fired!

It is not a question of "in my day"
The lack of general knowledge many young people have amazes me.
I have been to quizes where people do not known who basic general knowledge.

I have met a girl of 22 who did not know what a penguin is!
I know loads about the history and geography of the uk and the world
Not because I was taught about it at school but because I read rather than put every thing i do on social media
Rather than watch rubbish like Love Island

I think older people are too quick to blame tbh.in my 50s I'm the opp really. My dc Friend who lives with us is what I call jokingly my tech supporter. My phone plays up over to him.we didn't really get this knowledge either when younger. I never had a Saturday job .I don't know if they were all that though.often youngsters exploited with long hours and chap errands to run a lot of the time

I think it is possible to get very narrow in your interests with social media (and maybe know tonnes about one thing but less about others). But some things about knowledge can be a bit unfair. Do people remember 10 years ago when people everywhere were going 'Oh my God! I can't believe so many kids didn't know the Titanic was real, so ignorant!'

But, I mean, why should they? The Titanic film was a big feature in popular culture to kids who grew up with it, it would have been much more in their lives than the historical event. It's totally understandable if they didn't know it wasn't real.

How do you suggest people ( young or not) in new roles know what to LEARN without being given advice/feedback?

Using initiative is important, but guidance from others has always been needed.

Can you be 100% percent sure that your senior colleagues would have described your 16 year old self as perfect?

It’s quite likely they were understanding of your inexperience, and allowed you to develop your skills and confidence without berating you.

People can know things without being taught them. They can take initiative to go and find out and learn.

They can and should also be taught a lot of things by people who aren’t school teachers. Parents, grandparents, all sorts of people have a responsibility to teach kids things.

But there’s no reason for kids to learn lifeskills for the 1980s. That’s just silly.

Initiative has never been equally distributed - there's always been some people with it and others without and while to some extent it can be taught but a lot of the time it's kind of a personality trait. But people always focus on those with least initiative and then act as if everyone in a peer group is the same. I think that's ultimately what a lot of the eternal 'Young people these days...' arguments rest on and why the whole argument never dies!

I like the fact that on Pointless, Alexander and Richard gently tell younger contestants off if they answer “before my time” to historically significant questions they really ought to know.

Absolutely spot on.
We have a few younger colleagues (18-22 years old) who are late every single shift, anything from 10 minutes to half an hour and don't even bother to apologise which is awkward when they're supposed to be relieving someone else. Management are next to useless because apparently staff are hard to recruit so we can't get rid. Well yes because you only offer 16 hour contracts which only ever attracts students. Nothing against students but in my experience they do not make the best employees because they know it's not a career type job.

It's always been like this! I'm nearly 40 now and part of the 'millennial' generation. When I was younger it was Gen X rolling their eyes at us youngsters I'm sure their generation had boomers doing the same to them...

I think experienced workers forget how unconfident/nervous/shy a lot of teens/young workers are before they find their confidence, and teens have always mostly not given a shit not cared much about certain things in work! I look back at my teen self and we did the job but not enough to really give two hoots about customer service/cutting corners etc. It only becomes different as you get older, more mature in your attitude and have responsibilities (kids/a career you care about.)

Not all of course but it's a vast majority of teens.

I agree with some of this but I have to say that there is a very clear difference in our workplace between those born before 90 and those after. In fact I’d go as far as saying those born after 1995-2000.
Constantly late with an excuse
Always on their phones
A lot of sickness.
We may just be unlucky but the older staff are very different.

@JustWantedACat - yes, confidence is always an issue. Many young people, whenever they were born, will have been shy of asking for help in the workplace as they not have the self assurance to know asking doesn't make them look bad. A culture that takes a 'there are no dumb questions' attitude will get much more out of ones that moan that young people coming in don't have the exact skills they want fully developed.

YABU for thinking everyone has to be "taught" rather than that they need to identify what they need to learn and seek the answers.

It's a big issue I see with graduates and so on. Expecting to be spoon fed knowledge and capability.

Agree that people lack confidence to ask for help/seek out the answers themselves but this goes across all ages. I'm much more likely to hear 'I was never taught that at school' and then continued resistance to learning from anyone 50+ I'm my job when it comes to anything technical, despite the fact they've had much longer to learn...

Older people have always moaned about the younger generation being a bit rubbish. 'Twas always thus and always thus will be.

I think it's because as you get older you tend to have a rose tinted view of your own abilities in youth, and it's so easy to forget the little hints and tips your older colleagues gave you.

It's a big issue I see with graduates and so on. Expecting to be spoon fed knowledge and capability.

This is a good example actually. I remember people moaning about this when I was a teenager - 25 years ago. I hear my colleagues (my age) moaning about it in the next generation too.

It's a bit like my yr13 class going on about how small and rude the year 7s are (eg "I'd never have barged past a sixth former when I was in year 7"). When they were in year 7 the sixth formers of that time moaned about them in exactly the same way.

They can LEARN the same way I LEARN, which is saying 'I don't know that. Let's find out'. I'm still learning now, in my 40s.

I deal with quite a lot of young people and I agree with PP who said school need to spoon feed their kids....not the school's fault really. Many parents leave the schools to parent their kids when infact it takes a village.

Young people brought up since smart phones don't develop general knowledge because they can find the answer at the click of a button. In the past you had to search, discuss etc which helps to develop your memory.

I'm not saying all young people are like this, but there is a definite shift in taking responsibility and that affects a lot.