People should stop blaming young people for not knowing stuff they've not been taught

[Echobelly]

I see quite a lot of social media posts and articles about 'Generation Z don't know how to do X' or 'Gen Z don't know how to behave in an office' or (and this has been going of for years) 'Young people starting their careers lack job skills'

A recent one has been complaining they basically don't know how to use a desktop or computer filing system because they all use phones/apps. Well that's hardly their fault workplaces are still using the stuff most people have grown up with, and that those people have then assumed everyone will know how to use it automatically. Just because 'the kids' are social media savvy doesn't actually mean they're automatically 'tech savvy'.

And with the rules of workplace and flexibility changing, again it's not suprising if some young people misjudge what's OK. I think workplaces may need to spell it out a bit more what might need to be cleared with a manager and what's OK to make a call on. Those of us who've been in the office for decades (sorry, can only talk about office-based work from my own experience) know how to make that call, but someone who's not worked before might not realise. Especially if coming out of uni where, let's face it, some people play fast and loose with their attendence at things, especially now when lots of stuff is available on a recording.

Like we knew how to do everything when started our careers, or it's school/higher ed's task to teach kids how to be 'Marketing executives' or 'Junior content managers' - no employers, that's your job! I do think people are unfair on young people like this.

We've been trying to recruit at work recently (retail) and we've had a lot of applicants that have no previous work experience due to their age (16-18), which is fair enough, but their application forms are awful.

Also, not answering their phone when we call to arrange an interview and then sending a text message to the store's landline number in reply to a voicemail. Its just a really basic level of communication that people should just know.

Seems ok to blame some of the older generation for not being au fait with the tech they didnt grow up with and wernt taught.

In the organisation I work for, the worst employees are the ones who are quite literally coasting until retirement. They are usually in senior positions but just aren't interested in taking on/implementing/enforcing changes vital for the organisation to keep up with rivals and move things forward, mainly because they've lost all drive. They roll their eyes almost at new legislation/new policies, which aren't unnecessary "bollocky" ones but ones which enable things to move on with the times because they "did things just fine before". These changes include things like keeping up with technology and its changes and implementing the changes needed to fulfil the commitment to reduce waste and environmental impact. They just aren't interested (in the organisation i work for) so give me the youngsters any day.

In the organisation I work for, the worst employees are the ones who are quite literally coasting until retirement

They block internal promotion too. If there is no possible way for someone younger on a lower rung to move up, what can they learn? What progression can they see? None. So they either coats themselves or leave and take their valuable (alternative) skills elsewhere.

But it's OK for the older generation to judge youngsters of their use of the new technology that exists?

I'm not Gen Z or Gen X, no skin in this game, but it's not on to brand all early 20s as Love Island watching instagrammers who wouldn't know what a penguin was or a top loading spin tub.

I think there's a reluctance to ask questions now. I don't know if it's a generational thing, or a "I just can't be bothered thing". People just won't do their jobs properly and if they don't know the answer they don't go to a manager and ask. It's infuriating if you are a customer.

On the other hand, managers who say "work it out for yourself" are not helping, and it's not efficient. If you know the answer to something, just tell your colleague, it's much more efficient.

I also agree that employers who allow people to make mistakes and learn from them instead of sacking them, will do better overall, but that's not an age thing.

What I will say is that the younger staff at my employer are really good. I would never have got a job in my field now. They are ridiculously talented.

What do you suggest though, when the retirement age keeps rising? People need to eat.

Absolutely. My line manager (who is in her 50s and became the manager of the team 2 years ago) hired myself (under 40) and another colleague who is 26 onto her team last year which is something unheard of before as the old manager wouldn't entertain any "youngsters" because she didn't think they had enough experience or knowledge. Our "new" team has made a profit for the first time ever and smashing it!
Promoting younger internal staff can be so good for business and really drive things forward. Gone are the days of "you need 20 years experience." A lot of younger workers in their 20s and 30s learn quick, have skills you don't realise until they are given the opportunity and also have the drive for positive change. I'd never overlook a younger employee just because "they're only 26" or whatever!

Absolutely. My line manager (who is in her 50s and became the manager of the team 2 years ago) hired myself (under 40) and another colleague who is 26 onto her team last year which is something unheard of before as the old manager wouldn't entertain any "youngsters" because she didn't think they had enough experience or knowledge. Our "new" team has made a profit for the first time ever and smashing it!
Promoting younger internal staff can be so good for business and really drive things forward. Gone are the days of "you need 20 years experience." A lot of younger workers in their 20s and 30s learn quick, have skills you don't realise until they are given the opportunity and also have the drive for positive change. I'd never overlook a younger employee just because "they're only 26" or whatever!

I've noticed with my own kids that in an era where people don't have a landline (or use it much if they do), they didn't really know how to politely talk on the phone, like if they were younger and rang a friend's parents, they'd just say 'Hi, is X there?' and not say hello to the parent and ask how they are (obviously, we discussed that when I realised) or they'd answer a phone and say 'I'll just go to Mum' or whatever. When I was much younger than them, I was answering the phone saying 'Hello [phone number] and taking messages. But they haven't had that experience.

But that's pretty normal phone behaviour isn't it? I'm in my late thirties and if I rang a friend as a teenager, or they rang for me, standard intro was "Hi, is so-and-so there?" (sometimes with "It's Sarah/Laura/Emma" added). And if someone calls for DP or me at home now and the other one answers, they usually say "Oh hi, is [whoever] there?" (unless it's close family where there's a relationship with each of us). If one if DP's friends that I don't know that well, whose main relationship is with him and not with me, called to speak to him but went into a whole conversation with me about how I was doing, I'd think that was a bit unusual, or at the very least I'd think it was completely normal if they just said "Hi, is Mark there? It's Tom". And if someone called and it was clearly something I wasn't equipped to deal with, I wouldn't sit there taking a message if I could tell the caller "I'll just go and get [the person they need]". I'd also think it was a bit unusual to hear someone rattle off their phone number on answering the phone, and would be thinking of Victor Meldrew the whole rest of the conversation

I suggest they need to step up. They're often in senior positions being paid well, so they need to be doing the job they are being paid (well) to do. Or organisations just need to make it more difficult to retain in these positions if your job performance isn't cutting it. Yes, they may have been there 20 years, but if business is suffering and/or not moving forwards like they need to because Sally and John are coasting until they retire then something needs to change.

Do you really think it was any different a generation ago?

Really?

Or that it's somehow impossible to get stuck in and take charge of your own learning?

It might be because my kids went to comps but the only 16+ teens that I know without a part-time job either go to their other parent every other weekend or have a heavy sport training schedule.

If you go to the supermarkets, shops or restaurants round here you regularly see 16-18 year olds working as did my kids.

I think that older generations always bitch about the younger ones. In time, Gen Z will bitch about Gen Alpha

Anybody with half a brain will realise that Gen Z will inevitably not be as good on phones as older people as many use text 99% of the time. That's a shit tonne less practice than us older people.

I know that there's voice notes and video messages but gen z will have used texts much more.

People have always said these things. It isn’t new.

For them not to coast. Do some work.

Maybe other generations just weren't as easily upset or offended? Honestly though, work ethic is probably what we learn from our parents. My children will learn from me.

You could turn that around into - maybe other generations put up with too much shit/abuse/harassment (women)/ casual "funny" comments that were sexist/racist/homophobic? All things this generation are less likely to accept as "the norm" like previous but are no doubt accused if being "upset or offended" because they "can't take a joke."

@Ffsmakeitstop
We have a few younger colleagues (18-22 years old) who are late every single shift, anything from 10 minutes to half an hour and don't even bother to apologise which is awkward when they're supposed to be relieving someone else. Management are next to useless because apparently staff are hard to recruit so we can't get rid. Well yes because you only offer 16 hour contracts which only ever attracts students. Nothing against students but in my experience they do not make the best employees because they know it's not a career type job

See, back when I was first starting out I turned up late (bus was late,. Something like that) and I got to work and said nothing. No apology. Nothing. Just got on with it.
My manager tore me a new one. Gave me a complete bollocking about respect for others. I'll never forget it. I thought I was going to be sacked!
I think now we just eye roll and we really shouldn't. People should know what is and isn't acceptable.

I find the younger people I work with generally full of a misplaced overly bolshy confidence.
They seem happy to tell me in great detail about their exam results (even though they took them 5-6 years ago) and how they plan to make big career waves whilst simultaneously fucking up every piece of work that they are given (not by me, I work alongside them).
At their age if I made a mistake I had to find out sharpish how to correct it, the person I am thinking of blames anxiety and gets someone else to fix it so never learns.
I think the last few generations have heard so much 'you can be anything you want to be' from parents and teachers it hasn't actually occurred to them that they might have to work for it.

I would just reply with "OK, Boomer" and be done with it.

It happens both ways though. The ageist sneer of how can you not know how X works, when you've grown up with technology.

But then surely the "if you don't know something, then find out and learn" theory, which is applied to younger ones, also applies to the older workers in this instance too.

Some really interesting perspectives here, thanks everyone!

I wonder if there is perhaps less deference to people for being older, which can be a double edged sword. Yes, it's good to not assume the 'wisdom' of people older than you, but it's also good not to discount it. There's mixture of cultural messages about 'Young people don't know X or Y' and 'Young people are sooo much better than older generations at X and Y' which can create a tension. I think there needs to be willingness on both sides to listen and respect - sometimes older people have knowledge and experience younger people can't have; sometimes younger people have knowledge and insight to issues that older people don't have.

We're talking about a generation being offended about their common sense and work ethics. You've slightly escalated that!