To think strikes won’t achieve anything in the UK

[Sunshineseabeach]

What are people opinions; In my opinion education and health will eventually become private and the gap between rich and poor will become bigger

If the U.K. does lose many higher tax payers when Labour get in I agree it’s going to be tough as tax burden gets bigger for lower earners.

If depends on the policies though. DH is a higher rate tax payer but we have a home & dc are in school. Higher taxes aren't necessarily a problem if the burden is equal & services for all are good.

Is he a Labour voter? He may not mind.

But imo one thing Blair did right was not target ‘the rich’. If Starmer makes a huge deal out of taxing the rich and people leave then it won’t be great. That tax burden gets passed down.

If the U.K. does lose many higher tax payers when Labour get in I agree it’s going to be tough as tax burden gets bigger for lower earners.

We’re losing teachers and nurses in droves but this is never considered a problem for the lower earners who can’t buy their way out of state education or the NHS.

It’s only when it’s affecting rich people, do rich people pay any attention to this argument.

People are blind to needing higher earners paying tax burden.

Blair knew it unfortunately Starmer isn’t as good at taking everyone with him.

Public sector needs to be funded somehow. Labour can do well when it doesn’t try to demonise higher tax payers for votes.

Middle earners pay lower taxes here comparatively. If it gets passed down it won’t be nicer for those people - even if people leaving makes them feel good temporarily.

@roarfeckingroarr why should they need sympathy to receive better and fair pay? They are workers trying to earn a decent wage not a charity asking for donations.

As a side note I'm a lower paid NHS emploee and I receive UC as a top up, costing the government more then it might to pay a higher wage. I won't be the only person needing to claim. either.

This. I'm not sure what anti-strike people think workers should do instead?

I'm not sure these strikes will do much so we need more strikes, like a general strike. Make an impact.

There is so much wealth in this country, it's just concentrated in the hands of the few who own everything. These owners couldn't generate profits without workers, yet they pretend that giving someone a job is some kind of act of charity. It's not. Workers get the raw end of the deal in the first place and still the bosses want more.

Some people don’t seem very alert to the need for teachers and nurses.

It’s also astonishing, this open admission that rich people will be off, leaving the country at the first sign of getting a bonus that is less than ^double their annual salary* because obviously they don’t give a shit about the country, only themselves and their money, but public sector workers should be expected to suck up endless pay cuts because it ‘might drive up inflation’ if we actually paid them not a ridiculous wage, like the ones who might leave the country are on, but a reasonable one.

Rich people don’t care about either the country, or it’s people, but ordinary workers are expected to self-sacrifice over and over and over again for the greater good.

But imo one thing Blair did right was not target ‘the rich’. If Starmer makes a huge deal out of taxing the rich and people leave then it won’t be great. That tax burden gets passed down.

What's the "rich", you can't target the true rich as they are already global.

It's also stupid that workers can paid a low wage & then tax is used to subsidise that pay & housing costs.

The whole country needs to drag these corrupt politicians out like we did when Thatcher was in power. Hit the Tories where it hurts, beyond contempt for the electorate, corrupt to the core,mass walkout, bring the UK to a standstill.

you can't target the true rich as they are already global.

Yes you’ve got it

That’s the funding Labour is relying on to fix the issue

Which is I agree laughable as other countries are more than happy to welcome them.

@noblegiraffe I think you're conflating issues.

Of course everyone benefits from good teachers & nurses I agree with you on that point.

However there is an issue because of the current economic climate; high costs, high tax, low wages & poor services that people who have opportunities will look elsewhere. Some of those will be public sector employees. I have teacher friends in NZ & Dubai & I know through family lots of doctors are going elsewhere

@MarshaBradyo but there are loads of people like me who labour could target. I wouldn't run off if I got less inheritance.

How do we improve the economy without investing in education? Lots and lots of teachers have left the profession over the last 5-10 years and it is getting harder and harder to recruit new teachers.

This year, the government missed its target for recruiting Biology teachers by 66%. That doesn't bode well for the future of e.g. healthcare or biosciences in the UK. They missed their target for English teachers by about 33% too- how do we compete on a global scale if school leavers don't have good communication skills.

If we don't invest in education, we will end up in a vicious cycle where things get worse and worse- at least now we are talking about this and having conversations about the situation in schools and the lack of qualified teachers etc. As a teacher, I don't feel I can just put up and shut up as education crumbles in front of me.

I worry about the kids coming into my school in Y7- what will their school look like in 5 or 7 years time?

We already got millions in extra taxes just by targeting Nadhim Zahawi.

How many others out there like him are not paying what they owe?

committees.parliament.uk/committee/127/public-accounts-committee/news/175322/hmrc-approach-to-compliance-means-public-purse-is-missing-out-on-billions-in-lost-revenue/

£42 Billion in unpaid tax, apparently.

With £42 Billion, we could sort out health and social care, we could really invest in education, we could invest in things like libraries and leisure centres and youth workers again.

I'm sick of being told there is no money.

Are you generally a Labour voter anyway? You might not mind paying more inheritance but that’s not always the case.

They have stated how they intend to fund what they want to do. Which is also nuts wrt NHS

It’s frustrating as they have a fairly open remit at next election and there are better options than what they propose.

I think past failure is worrying them and they’re going for safest vote winner, but it doesn’t sound good.

However there is an issue because of the current economic climate; high costs, high tax, low wages & poor services that people who have opportunities will look elsewhere

Yes, so the argument is made that we have to continue giving tax breaks to the rich, and insane bonuses to keep them around.

While at the same time it is being argued that teachers and nurses shouldn’t be paid more to keep them around even though they are also vital to the economy.

Why can that argument be made for the rich (pay more to keep them around) and be agreed by the government but not for the teachers and nurses whose strike action, according to this thread, will fail?

Because their forefathers were willing to put up with the pain if short term pain to ensure that future generations benefit as they are doing now.

It's the timeing. I appreciate they feel overworked and undervalued, but so do tens of millions of other workers who are struggling on even lower wages and without sick pay, holidays and pensions.

@noblegiraffe well I'm certainly not making that argument & you clearly didn't read my post correctly so...

@MarshaBradyo I'm a floating voter, most often voted lib dem but don't really like any party at the moment although won't be voting Tory.

BTW in terms of affording to strike, unions do have hardship funds for those who suffer financial hardship due to the strike.

I hope you can see why those are two completely separate issues.

Others on this thread are certainly making that argument and my responses are mainly to them.

I don’t know the answer but the Tories obviously would ban strikes if they could.

What they don’t realise is, if they in theory banned teachers striking for example, people wouldn’t go into the industry because they wouldn’t have union power.

So there would be even more of a lack of teachers and the problem would get worse.

Banning nurses and teacher’s from striking wouldn’t improve the situation. It would put people off doing the jobs altogether.