To escalate a complaint after finding fraudulent activity?

[Wherestherumgone]

Long story short, we're at the beginning stages of reserving a new build property and we have found our signatures have been forged on a legal document. We've highlighted this to site and head office as it doesn't sit right with us that this was done. We understand why, they forgot to ask for one of us to sign, but they should have phoned us to go back. The site have admitted it to us but offered a half hearted apology and had a go for escalating it to head office. We spoke to head office and although they apologised there were no suggestions of what steps would be put in place to prevent it happening again.

Now we have 2 dilemmas; we could take it further but I don't want the person to be sacked or anything but I'm not sure this has been taken seriously. Secondly, do we continue with the purchase? We would still have to deal with the person on a regular basis and there will undoubtedly be an atmosphere.

I suppose the AIBU is are we being unreasonable to continue with the purchase when we know this and even more so if we continue down an escalation route? Is it worth escalating or do we just leave it with the half hearted apologies? Thank you.

@TaRaDeBumDeAy yes and no. There was a time limit but because one of us signed and paid even though a signature was missing no one else could have taken it and we had pre-reserved it days earlier with a partial down payment so my understanding is it was locked to us so to speak.

@SeasonFinale I think it's because I can understand why it was done and the right intentions were there. That doesn't make it right though.

Fraud is never a right intention. What if your DH had decided against signing?

Update

The house builder has formally replied to our email and to be honest their reply is shoddy. They apologised but that's it. We will still have to deal with the same salesperson and that's it, like it or lump it. No come and go and certainly no goodwill gestures.

Our lawyer has been involved and is communicating on our behalf and even she is surprised by their attitude.

The salesperson has been suspended but it sounds very much like they'll be back to their job shortly which is why we will still have to deal with them. Not sure that's going to make a pleasant buying journey.

Husband and I have until next week to either withdraw or continue with the sale. Unsure whether we cut our nose off to spite our face now or carry on despite the circumstances. Not many houses like this in our area which is what's pushing us (me now, he's leaving it to me to decide).

We're very disappointed. It feels as though despite the person undergoing disciplinary action, we are very much a nuisance for bringing it to their attention despite the fact it's against the law.

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Use it to your advantage.

I couldn't get that worked up about this since you did sign it and had sight of it yourself - even though your husband didn't sign it. Stupid decision on the part of the employee but if you want the house I'd just continue personally. No harm actually done in this instance and by you getting lots of free stuff for example they will learn their lesson and you'll be quids in.
I couldn't get that worked up about this (only in this instance) and I think it would be stupid to lose your dream house over. They're not bothered because they know they'll easily sell the house to someone else if you don't go ahead. You're cutting your noses to spite your faces.
Also taking legal advice 🤷‍♀️ really? What do you think will come of that?

I hadn't read this when I posted but I'm not surprised- they'll easily sell this to someone else so they're not that bothered. Just go ahead and stop getting in your own way. Once you're in the house you won't care about any of this. Nice one of your husband to let you decide such a massive decision 🙄

@PaddyDingDong

I think that's the issue, they know they'll sell it on so they don't care.

They haven't offered us any extras at all and have told us they won't be.
The solicitor is only involved because we were dealing with them anyway for the move and they have direct links with the builder as that's who the builder recommended we go with.

I think you're right but it's the atmosphere there'll be that's putting me off. If they had said we could deal with someone else we would continue.

I would be escalating and walking away from the purchase.

I'd be using this as leverage to get money off/upgrades if you really do still want the house!

They know how serious this is, and it's unlikely it would happen again in the same chain as I'm sure the person responsible for a right telling off internally. Probably some sales bod trying to reach their stats/with the best of intentions of saving you a journey back or worrying about being in trouble with their manager for missing something.
Doesn't make it right, but I wouldn't immediately be thinking it was malicious/I'll intentions or representative of the whole company.

I would however definitely be using it as bartering power! Check out the incentives they offer on new builds and see if you can negotiate some add ins - whether it's stamp duty paid or upgraded carpets, I'd be milking it!

Did your signature being on this document mean the agent benefited in some way?

Assuming you don't live on Mars then going back to actually sign would not have been too difficult.

Did they take a few from you at this time and failed to get your signature? They need training or sacking.

Who cares about an atmosphere?? Just crack on and see this as a small moment in time that you won't care about at all once you're in the house.

You're being way too soft here... Why arebyou worried whst they 'may think'?! Theurr the obes who should he bending over backwards to try and ameliorate their crime/'error'....

If it really is your dream house
I wouldn't necessarily pull out, but id ask for someone different ro manage the sale.

Change solicitors!!! Never use the solicitor the developer recommends! They get their business from a giant builder, who do you think they’ll side with should another issue arrive? 1 little client they’ll never do business with again or the massive company they get a constant stream of income from?

No no no, @Wherestherumgone please don't use the Solicitor recommended by the builder. rev Even without this fraud issue this would be a bad move.

That solicitor will no doubt be paid a referral fee to the builder for everyone who gets sent their way. If there's anything questionable about their practice, something important in the contracts or something missed in the regulations or whatever, can you honestly trust the solicitor to alert you to it correctly? You don't want a big crucial legal point to be glossed over or not brought to your attention enough. You need someone truly acting in YOUR best interests, who won't have at the back of their mind the financial bonus they're getting paid. Don't use a solicitor who's in the pocket of the builder!!

Also, remember to check what the management company provisions are for any shared areas on the development (paths, planted areas, playgrounds etc), what the annual maintenance fees are, how much they charge for everything (you’ll need their permission for everything and they’ll charge you for the privilege). Is there a ground rent charge? Is part of the estate leasehold (developers seemed to have introduced this for shared areas and it’s a nightmare). When it comes time, read the TP1 very carefully as it will include covenants that relate to the property eg your access rights, other people’s right to access your property, if you can modify the property (you may not need planning permission but you will need the developer’s permission (which you’ll have to pay for) etc. If there is a leasehold element to the title then the leaseholder (maybe the developer or a company they have sold the rights to) may have the right to reclaim ownership of the leased property if you are in breach of the leasehold agreement eg if you haven’t paid fees or asked permission to do something. There can be really onerous conditions to new builds that get waved away as being “standard” but can have really detrimental effects which people ignore as everything is so time sensitive. You get pushed to reserve, pushed to sign things quickly. Can you be sure that the people you’re dealing with are going to be acting in your best interest? They’re not going to do anything to make you feel better about forging your signature. They genuinely don’t care if you buy it or someone else does and they’d probably prefer someone else at this stage. Will the sales rep be rushing to answer your calls or chasing that snagging list?

There’s also a danger that because the firm you deal with is used to dealing with the documents from this builder they may miss something or assume something is included as it always is. It’s not unheard of for solicitors to rely on their previous knowledge of a property/development but for that information not to be included in the title documents. It doesn’t matter what someone knows or assumed, what matters is what is legally included in your title deeds.

Thanks all. I don't know how much further we can escalate tbh. We tried the ombudsman and they can't do anything until 56 days have passed and the solicitor. I appreciate what you're saying but maybe I'm being nieve but she is really appaled at them too and seems to be on our side.

Where else do we go to escalate? I believe the person has been suspended pending their investigation and there was no malice behind it, they should have just called, we were 5mins away.

We asked to deal with someone else and got told no. We've asked for a gesture of goodwill and been told no too. I genuinely think they know someone else will buy so they don't need us so to speak.

OP I think you need to be more realistic in the outcome you want here, you won’t get any money off or free upgrades or “goodwill gesture” from the company- you aren’t out of pocket and you haven’t lost anything.

You won’t get anything from pursuing a civil case because you have incurred no losses.

Its understandable this has left a sour taste, because it shows poor judgment on the part of the company- if you want to pull out then do, or if you want to stick with the house then do, but you need to reconcile the fact you won’t get any form of compensation because you haven’t incurred any loss.

The person has been suspended, I think you need to move on now

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Seriously don't cut off your noses to spite your face. I guarantee the employee will feel way more uncomfortable than you especially as they did it with good intentions, they won't do it again especially after being suspended.

That particular document does not really impact anything though does it....

Did you sign it? Have you signed any other documents in relation to this purchase and are you sure it does not say in the fine print that they can use your signature for non financial things?

Also the email they sent you does it say 'do you approve' / 'can you confirm you approve of the document' type thing?

I think you are making more of this because it's inherently wrong but actually you haven't lost or changed anything - you paid the fee so you consented to whatever they added your signature to.
I really think you need to accept the apology and move on - either ditch the house or buy it.

We understand why, they forgot to ask for one of us to sign, but they should have phoned us to go back

I can't believe you actually want to protect someone who's forged your signature on a legal document. You're being an apologist for a criminal act against you.

You're also being very very naive thinking you not speaking up to save them losing their job when the person can just go on and commit more criminal acts because you won't do the right thing.

I agree you need to work out what you want. The company can't really do much more - they are not responsible for the random choices of an employee, the employee is suspended and HR processes will take over. There is no loss to you to compensate you for.

I recall a time the school did something they should not have. I was annoyed and shocked as it was a legal breach that could have caused a real problem, but luckily had not. However I accepted the apology and their assurance it would not happen again - I didn't remove my child from the school - I moved on.

You won't ever get to live in a world where no one ever does anything stupid/random/wrong. So you just have to decide if you want this house which is being sold by this firm.

Get legal advice. Independent legal advice.

Myself and my DH had put down a deposit on a property that we were buying off the plans. It was in a lovely up-and-coming area of our city and within a few weeks the developer had contacted our solicitor and us advising us that they had changed the layout of the interior of the home and reduced the overall square meterage in the property....but not the price!
What they had discovered was if they rejigged a few things inside the row of properties that "ours" would have been at the end of (so end of terrace/semi-detatched) they could actually fit a whole new property in the row, thereby maximising their take, but reducing the size of the other properties.
We asked our solicitor what we could do and we could either walk away (as final contracts had not been signed) or we could carry on.

We made the hardest decision to walk away.

I, to this day, wonder if the people that ended up buying the property, realised that they were paying top dollar for a smaller property or if they would have been happy to have a roof over their heads. It was during the property boom so developers were trying their hardest to squeeze every square centimetre out of their plans.

Unless I actually buy a plot of land, I'll never buy a property off the plans, ever!

It's so pretty shoddy conduct.

If you love the house I'd use this to your advantage and negotiate a freebie or heavy discount in exchange for not pursuing legally or naming and shaming them publiclically, which would cost them a fortune).

Say a £50k reduction or upgraded fixtures / landscaping that sort of thing.

And insist that the person is retrained and stays away from your transaction.