Retirement ages in Europe versus the UK

[MensisIanuarius]

AIBU to think this has gone relatively unnoticed by the UK population?

So, we are plagued with high taxes, low ages, long hours and commutes on unfit for purpose infrastructures and we retire 4 years later than Germany, who has the oldest retirement rate in Europe.

France are kicking off big time at raising it to 64, and our government are looking to raise it to 68 at some point.

So, work long hours, pay massive taxes, can't afford food or heating and work till you are 67/68. If you are lucky, you might get a few weeks off before you peg it due to the previous decades of poor quality of life, and lack of healthcare.

AIBU to think this is actually a massive shitshow to retire at 67, whereas our neighbours pack it in way earlier?

Many posters on here like to cherry pick stats from other European countries then use them as a stick to berate the UK.

For example this article states the German retirement age is 67, not 4 years earlier than the UK as the OP claims.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64309155

From that article

"However, the ( French) government says the system is heading for disaster because the ratio between those working and those in retirement is diminishing rapidly. From four workers per retiree 50 years ago, the ratio has fallen to around 1.7 per retiree today, and will sink further in the years ahead.

Nearly all other European countries have taken steps to raise the official retirement age, with Italy and Germany for example on 67 and Spain on 65. In the UK it is currently 66."

What level of taxation is required on those 1.7 workers per retiree?

In the article it also mentions that few French people have any private provision, unlike the UK who were encouraged to by the " evil" Tories.

It one problem the UK faced earlier than much of Europe.

“countries will be competing for skilled workers. A relative is a senior consultant & so many new doctors are going to Oz & NZ for higher pay & better standard of living. But she always says there is no way todays young doctors will be in the same position as her when they reach her age.”

Training doctors cost the state a huge amount of money fullfact.org/health/cost-training-doctor/

You cannot make them stay though - it would be better to give them a large bonus after let’s say 5, 10, 15 years of service. Same with teachers, nurses etc. - and some time off, like a sabbatical. And better working conditions by training more of them in the first place. Also they need to be valued by society for their actual contributions. Not sure how to achieve that in a capitalist society.

You can always retire earlier, just start saving OP!

@Nolongera

In the article it also mentions that few French people have any private provision, unlike the UK who were encouraged to by the " evil" Tories.

As I understand it in the French system there's not much private provision in exactly the sense that that term means in the UK, so to some extent that statement is true.

OTOH many French workers, even low paid, will have a portion of their pay diverted into one of the many often sector specific quasi private/quasi public pension providers....

I'm in Belgium. DH has just got his pension aged 65 (though he;s still working) but as I'm younger I have to work until until 67. Technically I can retire earlier than that as I will have worked for the requisite 42 years aged 62. Full state pension is about 1600 euros a month. Taxes in Belgium are really high - you pay 40% after about 14k per year and 50% on anything over 42k. Tax free allowance is about 10k with extra allowances for non-working spouse and children though.

As much as we'd all love to retire early I think it's a thing of the past. Both the UK and other Western European countries have high life expectancies. In the UK 18.6% of our population is over 65 which is over 11 million people. We simple cannot sustain paying out state pensions for that many people, especially when many of them (of course not all) are in very good health. Falling birth rates will only make the problem worse because our population will become top heavy, more retirees being support by fewer economically active people. France and other countries may have lower retirement ages now, but not significantly and they are just kicking the problem down the road.

Yes, but the point is that the creators of the state pension could not have imagined how long it would be paid for to current pensioners, and as a result current pensioners did not contribute anywhere near enough to fund it.

There are more than 40 countries in Europe. They aren't all the same.

This, and the fact that people live a lot longer after retiring too - dying in your 70s is considered quite young these days.

Ill retire At 60.
Your welcome to plan and retire at whatever age you wish to.

Clearly not true. No plan would have allowed me to retire at 25 like I'd like to have done. Not a reliable plan that doesn't rely on extremely good luck like "take all my wages and piss it away on the lottery."

and our government are looking to raise it to 68 at some point

Actually, this has already happened.

I should have added an * 😉

Taxes in Belgium are really high - you pay 40% after about 14k per year and 50% on anything over 42k

The reality is, that this is the level of taxation we need to pay in the UK if we want a functioning NHS, schools, decent pensions etc. But I can't see any party trying to implement it getting voted in.

I think an older pension age, but it being a higher amount is easier to plan for. If i knew at 78 I would get a state pension that would be enough financially, i only need plan for however many years i wanted retirement before that. So I could say 15 years. At the moment we seem to have a state pension that keeps moving further away which isnt quite enough to live off so you have to plan for stretching your money potentially up to 101, but most likely 84 or maybe never using it.

I dont know if it would be cheaper for the tax payer to pay less years, at a higher amount for presumably less people. I also dont know how realistically you would manage the change.

I prefer higher age retirement and lower comparative taxes

Why should they?

Taxes in Belgium are really high - you pay 40% after about 14k per year and 50% on anything over 42k

what's the average salary in Belgium though? I thought it was quite high.

@Orangepolentacake I don't think they should

@MensisIanuarius I don't think it's correct that we retire 4 years later than Germany? In this article it says 66 for the UK and 67 for Germany:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64309155

Thats not quite a true comparison because (in UK) you have to carry on working until 67 regardless of reaching the min amount of contributions.... i'm 7 years away but have paid in 41 years worth.

In Germany you can take an earlier retirement age if you ve paid in enough contributions, 65 i think.

We shouldn't have a universal pension age, what works for a office worker or an MP etc is far too long for someone in a more physical job, would you like a crew of 65 yo firemen turning up to put your house fire out? Or builders, roofers, perhaps lorry drivers... i wouldn't want a 66 yo electrician with failing eye sight re wiring my house as he staggers about in the loft.... if he could even get up there...

How realistic is it for the government to assume that employers actually want to employ people over 65? If retirement age is going up again, then they need to encourage more employers to employ older people.

What about employers who anticipate that older staff will need more time off for health reasons or will be less capable than younger, fitter people? A friend was recently turned down for a job she was perfectly qualified for at 55 because most of the team she'd be working in were under 30 and she was told she wouldn't be a good fit.

It reminds me of the days when I used to hear colleagues or employers with small businesses saying that it is risky to employ younger women, in case they have to pay for maternity leave.

I remember my mother saying "Never get sick or old" and its seems to resonate more than ever these days.

This is exactly it. The UK also has a large number of the population living on benefits or are full time carers for family members, so there needs to be more tax money coming in cover for those aren’t/can’t contribute. Income tax in the UK is very low when you look at what it is supposed to cover. I paid 40% when I lived in Belgium, 21% in UK and now 32% in Sweden and had basically the same gross salary. I can say that the healthcare I received was far worse in the UK than the other countries.

@Alexandra2001 a lot of these people may have occupational pensions that they can take earlier. Some roles like police and fire fighters have pensions that recognise this and allow retirement after a set amount of service (30 years for police I think so in theory if you joined the force at 18 you can retire at 48 on a occupational pension).

It pays not to confuse the state pension, that has a set qualifying age, and occupational pensions or other retirement funds. IMO people would be foolish just to rely on the state pension.

@Ginmonkeyagain Obviously... but the fact is we are talking about state retirement ages not theoretical retirement ages based on what someone has saved.

Plus in many industries, good state backed schemes simply do not exist, DC pensions aren't great, their growth in recent years has been poor and annuity rates even worse.
Which is why so many people have gone into BTL for their retirement.

Of course the Govt is very keen to blame people who have retired earlier for the state of the economy and stubborn hi inflation levels......