Retirement ages in Europe versus the UK

[MensisIanuarius]

AIBU to think this has gone relatively unnoticed by the UK population?

So, we are plagued with high taxes, low ages, long hours and commutes on unfit for purpose infrastructures and we retire 4 years later than Germany, who has the oldest retirement rate in Europe.

France are kicking off big time at raising it to 64, and our government are looking to raise it to 68 at some point.

So, work long hours, pay massive taxes, can't afford food or heating and work till you are 67/68. If you are lucky, you might get a few weeks off before you peg it due to the previous decades of poor quality of life, and lack of healthcare.

AIBU to think this is actually a massive shitshow to retire at 67, whereas our neighbours pack it in way earlier?

It is what it is. The time to have kicked off about it has passed. If anyone can stop the rise to 68 I’d back them.
And prior to all this equally women retired at 60.

I wonder what child care is like in France. I read it was the norm for retired GPS to look after the children when the DPs worked.

We don't have high taxes relative to Europe that's how they fund earlier retirement. We retire 4 months later than Germany not 4 years. Norway is the country that retires on average latest in life in Europe .

www.euronews.com/next/2023/01/10/pension-reform-in-france-which-countries-have-the-lowest-and-highest-retirement-ages-in-eu
The second graph gives the retirement date.

I think in Germany they save a lot to be able to afford to retire relatively early. I've also read that they're in the process of increasing their retirement age to 67 within a few years.

The countries who haven't done this yet are generally heads in the sand/kicking the can down the road. Realistically if you don't enter the workforce until your early 20s due to university etc, you can't expect to retire in your early/mid 60s to enjoy a 20/30 year retirement unless you or the state saves/invests what is likely to be an unaffordable amount of money.

People who've previously retired earlier, started work much earlier, often as young as 15/16 and have a lower life expectancy than today's working age adults, so the 'work to retirement' ratio is much greater, eg 40/50 years of working to pay for 10/20 years of retirement.

Having said that, UK society has much greater inequality than many European countries so what we really need is high earners to earn less and/or be taxed more so low to middle earners can earn more and/or be taxed less. And by high earners I mean people who Mumsnet generally considers to earn 'not that much' eg £70/80k+.

You're taking bits and pieces of data and not the full picture

www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/official-issues/pensions-retirement-age-germany

I think it was totally wrong that women octaves state pension at 60 and men 65.

Total inequality.

If you want retire earlier you have to 'save' more to fund it so higher taxes or private pension.

Life expectancy is significantly higher than when the state pension was introduced and the retirement age hasn't gone up in the same way so what was a pension for a couple of years before someone passed away is now often a 15-20 year payment.

Most of the country's you quote are going to have to increase the retirement age in the coming years because the deficit in pension funds is going to get huge. Germany, as has been noted, is very similar to the UK already.

Our tax isn't that high in the UK either and ultimately if you want to improve the state pension you need to pay for it via taxes. But if you wanted to do that now, wouldn't you just put more into your private pot? Or are you saying that OThERS need to pay for YOUR increased pension?

Finally, noone says you have to retire at state retirement age.

Maybe show us just where you're getting your data from because at a glance those look very very weak and that will affect your conclusions. Official retirement age in Germany traditionally is 65 and has been in a gradual process of adjustment to 67 for quite some years now. (De facto average retirement is lower because many people leave earlier without full pension benefits.) The French battle I believe is about extremely uneven sectoral agreements that to date have cemented unequal benefits rather than about the overall legal pension age. And so on and so forth..

Countries are all increasing their retirement age. Germany is in process to 67 without too much opposition. France has had strikes, riots etc - pre covid remember? That was about increasing the pension age partly. They need to increase but you know the French! Other countries are increasing too, though at different stages of the process

@MensisIanuarius

the ages are increasing across EU.
in the UK you pay high taxes but then don't have to pay health insurance etc so you have to see the whole picture.

ps the UK will suffer hugely due to Brexit.

it needs to rejoin the Eu.

The UK income tax is low compared to the richer countries in the EU. I live in Sweden and pay 32% tax on a very average income, retirement age is 66. I mean you can retire earlier but at 66 is when you get your full pension. There is talks of making it 67 years, but that's not gone through yet.

Also if you look, to get the full pension in france you will have to have worked 43 years! Here it's 35

Wasn’t one of the reasons for Greece’s financial collapse and also a reason for Italy about to be because of early retirement

my friends in German start paying into some sort of insurance fund for their children they goes towards their retirement they assumed I did too

Isn't our population older than France as I thought they had higher birth rates. Plus we aren't as rich as Germany. Pension age will have to keep rising, it's shit but we have an ageing population, social care & NHS in disarray & huge intergenerational inequality.

And by high earners I mean people who Mumsnet generally considers to earn 'not that much' eg £70/80k+.

This issue is that isn't that much once you take into account tax, student loan, pension contributions, housing costs & childcare costs. You can't tax people more on income at that level imo.

Life expectancy is significantly higher than when the state pension was introduced and the retirement age hasn't gone up in the same way so what was a pension for a couple of years before someone passed away is now often a 15-20 year payment.

this is true but healthy life expectancy hasn't increased much in the last decade or so.

Absolutely not. I don't know anybody who had this. GP help in the school holidays otherwise it's nursery or a childminder. Nursery is a couple of euros an hour, a childminder about 3 euros 20.

Interesting to see that Turkey has the lowest retirement age - 52. Yet Turkish men have a life expectancy after retirement of 20 years, so can expect to live til they are 72, whereas in England men who also have a life expectancy post retirement of we years can expect to live until they are 86.

I agree, OP. Some people might be fortunate and feel as fit at 68 as they did at 28, but I don't think that would apply to the majority. It should have been left at 65 - even that will be too late for some actually to enjoy retirement. It's a case of working till you drop.

@BarbaraofSeville has it spot on. We'd all like to retire at 55 with a golden handshake pension after starting work at 25 due to uni and a couple of years out travelling the world with another 10 years out in the middle to raise kids and then live until we are 90 doing cruises for 6 months of the year....

People need to get real. Yes, people used to retire at 60 after working since they were 15 and then drop dead when they were 65.

And there is zero point comparing us to a country like Norway with a tiny population and completely different demographic.

But if it suits people to blame Brexit and the Tories then crack on.

@GrumpyPanda

The French battle I believe is about extremely uneven sectoral agreements that to date have cemented unequal benefits rather than about the overall legal pension age.

That's certainly in the mix one ...and as a general point @gogohmm points out there's also the issue of contributions (lots of years needed to get a full state pension compared with some other countries).

It would certainly be wrong to think all French workers have the right to toddle off into a well funded retirement in their early sixties.

I agree - but the way to gain equality isn’t to go up to the higher figure, which is what happened under the radar. There has been a huge backlash as a result.

I worked in an EU country for 15 years. My expected retirement age was 65 (and rising). During my time my pension contributions increased to cover retirees and my own pension decreased for the same reason.

it’s all a big Ponzi scheme m’dear and there will be fuck al left in the pot.