Retirement ages in Europe versus the UK

[MensisIanuarius]

AIBU to think this has gone relatively unnoticed by the UK population?

So, we are plagued with high taxes, low ages, long hours and commutes on unfit for purpose infrastructures and we retire 4 years later than Germany, who has the oldest retirement rate in Europe.

France are kicking off big time at raising it to 64, and our government are looking to raise it to 68 at some point.

So, work long hours, pay massive taxes, can't afford food or heating and work till you are 67/68. If you are lucky, you might get a few weeks off before you peg it due to the previous decades of poor quality of life, and lack of healthcare.

AIBU to think this is actually a massive shitshow to retire at 67, whereas our neighbours pack it in way earlier?

@Soontobe60 it was t under the radar and it wasn't economically possible to reduce men to 60.

The backlash has resulted in no change.

We'd all like to retire at 55 with a golden handshake pension after starting work at 25 due to uni and a couple of years out travelling the world with another 10 years out in the middle to raise kids and then live until we are 90 doing cruises for 6 months of the year....

Who wants this? I'm in my late 30s & paid NI since I was 17 as I like many people needed to work around education. It's not the norm to only start earning at 25, it's not the norm to take 10 yrs out to raise dc as most mothers work. Plus birth rates are pretty low with lots of people not choosing to have dc.

in England men who also have a life expectancy post retirement of we years can expect to live until they are 86

81.77

People need to get real. Yes, people used to retire at 60 after working since they were 15 and then drop dead when they were 65.

When was it normal to die at 65?
my parents didn't start work at 15 & are still very much alive & retired. My gps did start work at around 15 but lived into their 80s/90s

You can retire when you like. Just save more into your pension. Plenty retire before state pension age.

Not quite true, personal pensions cannot be accessed before 55 rising to 57 in 2028.

That's fine for your family, but not representative of the population as a whole.

Average life expectancy has increased by about 20 years in the last 100.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/mortality-insights-bulletin-from-gad-july-2022/mortality-insights-bulletin-july-2022#:~:text=The%20life%20expectancy%20of%20a,the%20birth%20of%20the%20Queen.

The state pension age should have increased much earlier, todays pensioners were not expected (when they first started work) to live to 80+. More like 70 if they were lucky. As a result, they did not (despite what they may think) pay enough for their state pension.

To recreate the state pension, you’d need at least £200k saved at age 65. That’s a lot of money to guarantee to everyone at retirement.

The idea that we can work for 40 years then be retired for 25/30 years on a comfortable income without saving a shitload of money is fantasy. If people don’t want to/can’t save enough money then the only options are later retirement or a lower standard of living.

Problem is, as a country we seem incapable of having adult discussions about the reality of people living longer, and how to pay for it (both in terms of pensions and the NHS).

I live in Norway. Some years ago they increased the retirement age to 67.

I think a lot of European countries, if they haven’t already, will be increasing their retirement age.

In 1946 when the state pension was introduced, average life expectancy was 65. It was intended as a safety net for the few who lived past that age, not as something that would still be paid to almost everyone for 25/30 years.

I forgot about Greece 🇬🇷. Didn't it change the Euros worth at the time aswell.

In 1946 when the state pension was introduced, average life expectancy was 65. It was intended as a safety net for the few who lived past that age, not as something that would still be paid to almost everyone for 25/30 years.

so people born in the 1880s. Life expectancy hasn't increased for those who face a retirement age of 68. The issue is an ageing population now & the fact that not enough them paid in to support earlier retirement, free NHS, free prescriptions at 60, social care needs etc.

Average life expectancy has increased by about 20 years in the last 100.

But most of the gains were made in the last 50 yrs I thought plus it's not a case that if born you died at X, infant mortality was far higher 100 yrs ago.

Another important point is that life expectancy isn't equal. In poorer areas it's lower.

France are kicking off big time at raising it to 64
Yes but you need something like 45 years to be entitled to the state pension so very few people get to retire at 64 anyway!

European countries like Italy, Germany and France are facing a massive demographic timebomb, Italy in particular. The current lower retirement ages in places like France cannot continue to be funded given the lower amount of working age tax payers and increased life expectancy. Hence Macron's reforms. The French will fight it but there is ultimately no choice.

The idea that we can work for 40 years then be retired for 25/30 years on a comfortable income without saving a shitload of money is fantasy. If people don’t want to/can’t save enough money then the only options are later retirement or a lower standard of living.

And expect a free NHS & social care in some cases.

The difficulty the country is in & yes Brexit & Tories are factors is the shrinking economic workforce. Cheap money disguised wage stagnation but that cloak has been ripped off.

The conundrum is how do you get workers, particularly ones like nurses, care workers etc to accept a lower standard of living?

People are living much longer and not enough babies are being born (although some other countries still have lots of children being born so the alternative is immigration). Childcare needs funding properly and to a high standard so most women can work and afford childcare. We still need more equality between men and women to pull their weight with regards to children. The Nordic states have a much better balance/incentives in this regard.

NHS and state pension were never originally meant for the current state of affairs…. People living until mid 80s to mid 90s and costing the NHS loads.
The vast majority of people have in fact not paid their way in any shape or form in taxes. So they end up taking out much more in monetary terms than they put in. However, wages do not reflect the value certain professions add to society as a whole… many people are grossly underpaid. Work needs to start paying properly for all.

European countries like Italy, Germany and France are facing a massive demographic timebomb, Italy in particular.

countries will be competing for skilled workers. A relative is a senior consultant & so many new doctors are going to Oz & NZ for higher pay & better standard of living. But she always says there is no way todays young doctors will be in the same position as her when they reach her age.

Life expectancy is significantly higher than when the state pension was introduced and the retirement age hasn't gone up in the same way so what was a pension for a couple of years before someone passed away is now often a 15-20 year payment.

DM worked for the NHS in a medical capacity - senior level. She retired at 55 and is still receiving her pension (which is more than many people bring a family up on), and DF"s teaching pension (he died 15 years ago) at 90.
She had been retired and receiving her pension for longer than she ever worked.
Great for her but that's not sustainable for the country, is it?

I’m not sure why that was but maybe because men died earlier, and women were often sahm and younger than DH so if the husband died they’d get a very small widows pension not quite enough to live on. If

Why should someone on 70k pay even more tax?

They're paying student loans off, already paying an extortionate amount of tax, are usually the ones utilising private healthcare where possible and definitely the ones putting the most money into the economy.

I know someone who earns slightly less than that, and their monthly deductions are more than my monthly take home.

For them to see any type of benefit from a payrise (i.e. more than say £50) they need a 10k pay rise.

People aren't okay with saying those on minimum wage need to improve their earning potential, why is it okay so say those who HAVE earned it, now need to give most of it away?

Plus private pensions are far less generous then they were for younger generations

Mumsnet needs an edit button.

I don't earn loads. I'm an average salary worker. So the comment about them paying more in tax than I take home, can be quantified.

Why should someone on 70k pay even more tax?

Quite

In the late 90s 40k was equivalent to 70k today accounting for inflation. The issue is wages haven't seen any growth for years

What worries me is the fact that so few people can actually afford to save anything like the 250k said to be necessary for a quite basic pension.
Unless you're a high earner I just don't see how it's possible with the cost of housing, either rent or mortgage with today's property prices, plus student loans and childcare and the current price hikes.

My dh and I will probably be OK as he has a reasonable civil service pension, we've only got two years left on the motgage so will then hopefully be able to start saving, and we're quite frugal.

We're also very fortunate in that my mil gifted each ds 10k about 15 years ago, and we have been able to save 150 per ds per month since then. It's built up quite nicely and we'll give it to them when we think they're responsible enough not to squander it.

We always imagined they would be able to use the money as a deposit for a flat but now I think they would be better off keeping it as a very long-term investment for their own retirement as I really don't see how their generation (late teens) are supposed to manage otherwise.

We've told them not to count on any inheritance other than this as, with the way things are today, anything else is likely to go on care costs when/if we get old, both for dh and I and for our own dps.

I'm also trying to convince them that degree apprenticeships are the way to go so that not only do they/we get in debt, but they also start paying towards their state pension as soon as possible.