To be really worried about proposed teacher strikes.

[katedan]

In England not Scotland for context. My twin daughters are year 11 and I am terrified about the impact of teacher strikes on their GCSEs. They have not yet covered the curriculum and every day counts to get them exam ready so strike days will be disastrous for year 11 and 13 pupils ( and lots of other children especially those who are vulnerable) these kids have had their education impacted by covid and now strikes. This will make the divide between state and private schools even bigger. Do you think they will go ahead or if a safety net will be put around exam years if it does.

I really don’t know, I’ve not actually even had a proper part time wage yet because I came back off Mat pay and straight into strikes, and I’d been full time til then.

I presume you're quite high up/years into teaching to be contracted 21 hours a week @ £160 a day?

25k/yr is take home of £1616 monthly, including pensions, NI, student loans, tax etc. £14.5k is £1100 with the same payments

You previously said you only took home £100 more per month than your partner who was on £13.5k/annum. Somewhere along the line your figures are wrong, or you’ve over egged the difference in earnings which doesn’t help your case much. £25k for 0.6 FTE is a good salary by any measure.

what are your contracted daily hours to get £160 was my question. Not how many extra hours you do. I get paid for 7 hours a day but I regularly do 10 hours (not a teacher) But in your shoes it would be £160/7. Was just interested to see what hourly rate would be.

I’m at the top of the non promoted pay scale.

It's really common amongst a lot of professions to work over your contracted hours (unpaid) unfortunately and certainly not unique to teaching. It's sort of become the norm, especially to work through your "lunch break," which is usually unpaid too. I agree to making a stand absolutely but wish it wasn't made out like it's just an issue for one sector (teaching) as it's across the board.

£40 an hour is pretty good pay tbh for basic contacted hours. (I appreciate overtime done etc)

Teachers don’t have contracted daily hours. They have contracted weekly hours. This is a mix of contact time and non contact time. I only need to physically be in the school during my contact time. For example if I only had classes until 11am, I could leave work and go shopping all afternoon, as long as I still conducted my contracted hours within my working week.

Some of my non contact time is directed eg I could have scheduled meetings, parents nights and such.

Ok so you get £160 a day for how many days and how many hours those days. Not extra hours. Just your contracted hours. Maybe for example it’s contracted weekly hours of 21. So that would potentially be 7 hours a day for 3 days ? So £160x3 / 21? £22.85 an hour ?

It definitely is, I’m not saying teaching is poorly paid because it’s most definitely a well paying job. However, I wouldn’t advise someone to go into it as a profession, because the earning potential is far lower than other jobs which require the same level of education, the hours are a lot more than you are actually paid for, and you are likely to be saddled with a lot of debt (especially since doing a teaching degree means it’s difficult to get a part time job since we do unpaid placements, and don’t get paid bursarieslike other placement based degrees do) and the working conditions are pretty poor.

If teachers felt they were adequately paid for their labour, they wouldn’t be leaving.

It seems this has turned round and the consensus seems to now be that teachers are overpaid?

I’m contracted for 21 hours and I have classes on three days if that’s what you mean.
There is no stipulation of how many hours I work on each day - as long as I teach my classes, and undertake other duties totalling 21 per week.

Hard for us non teachers to understand contact and not contact hours. For example I’m contracted to work 35 hours a week so my pay would be calculated on those hours regardless of the extra hours I may do due to business needs unpaid. Just genuinely trying to understand what £160 equates to. Most shop workers for example are on NMW so could never reach £160 a day as would mean too many hours a day to get to that. Obviously being a teacher you have a degree and so would expect to be on more than NMW so just wondered what your hourly rate equates to in real terms.

You must know your hourly rate though. Surely it’s possible to work it out ?

But no teacher is saying it’s just teachers who experience it? Teachers unions have decided it’s an issue worth them striking over. They aren’t saying they are the only ones in that position. I’m behind other workers also striking for better pay and conditions.

I'm am quite shocked that is the pay tbh (but appreciate that is from just one example) because the amount of workers who have just as much responsibility, work load and unpaid overtime but only get £10 an hour or maybe upto £14/15 an hour if they have to be qualified is a vast majority. Not saying its right but it is the reality unfortunately.

It seems this has turned round and the consensus seems to now be that teachers are overpaid?

I don’t think people are saying teachers are over paid, I think people are confused by your figures. You said earlier in the thread you took home marginally more than your partner earning £12k less than you, you’ve claimed you would be better off working in ASDA while also saying you earn a very good daily rate of pay - which someone working in a supermarket would work 16 hours to earn.

Its fine that teachers feel they are poorly paid, it’s fine to strike for more money, better conditions etc. It’s not ok to try and make a case for that with comparisons that don’t measure up.

Not all sectors have unions unfortunately and those on NMW most likely wouldn't be able to afford to join a union or afford to strike. The money they would lose in pay to strike could possibly mean in reality they couldn't afford their rent or food that month.

Why would I know my hourly rate? I’m salaried, I get paid the same regardless of how many hours it takes me to do my job. If I choose to do things that take me over my 21 hours, it is out of the goodness of my heart.

If I do one of the very few “extra” activities which we can get extra pay for (for example if I mark the final external exams) we are paid £25/hr, this is the same rate which we are paid for formal supported study (outwith informal supported study which we organise ourselves) we are also paid £25/hr. So I’d imagine it’s close to that.

It looks like FTE of about £40k which is about what DH earned as a research scientist, he also worked over his salaried hours. Most salaried jobs are like this, waged jobs are the ones that get paid overtime but don't generally get other perks like sick pay and are often low paid.

Aldi Warehouse workers to get £13.18 an hour.

the hours are a lot more than you are actually paid for, and you are likely to be saddled with a lot of debt (especially since doing a teaching degree means it’s difficult to get a part time job since we do unpaid placements, and don’t get paid bursarieslike other placement based degrees do) and the working conditions are pretty poor.

Theres no reason why someone can’t work part time while doing a teaching degree, many vocational degrees need an unpaid placement (or 3) and manage to work while studying and on placement, especially given the placement is standard office hours. Most placement based degrees don’t get a bursary either and students manage.

Teachers have legitimate complaints and concerns about working conditions, availability of resources, the degree of ASN kids they need to support in unsuitable environments, the endless extension of safeguarding and wellbeing responsibilities etc etc.

In amongst that are things that are part of being a professional - the need for a degree and the associated debt, additional work outside of usual working hours, placement requirements etc. Folk who do similar for much lower salaries aren’t going to be sympathetic to teachers complaining about things that are just part of professional life.

That may be the case but again, teachers can be sympathetic for other peoples positions whilst simultaneously wanting to improve their own. I can’t exactly strike to demand better pay for Asda workers, can I?

Teachers are also struggling financially. Some of my friends are teachers and are on a household income of £25k with multiple children to pay for childcare for, large mortgages taken on when their situations were different, etc.

To be fair, I don't think £160 per day is too shabby!

I think the confusion is the discussion of two separate things.

Your salary (which is actually very good)
Vs the benefits you could receive if you earned less money.

It’s not really equatable in the discussion as it’s not based on your profession and it ignores the fact you currently pay a lot into a pension for your own future benefit, which I’m assuming you could also lower now if you wished?

I don’t think teachers are overpaid, I don’t think they’re necessarily underpaid on a general basis either. I think your opinion on that depends on who you associate with. E.g for me I know lots of degree educated individuals who work in offices/shops/restaurants/start ups/manual work and earn a lot less than a teacher. However if you mostly socialise with solicitors, bankers and accountants you will think teachers earn a lot less.

Ultimately in my opinion, I don’t really care what an individual earns, I do care about the substandard education my kids are receiving due to poor government decisions and if the strikes highlight and work towards fixing that then I’m all for it, pay them everything if it means kids get the education they deserve.

Multiple children and large mortgages are lifestyle choices though unfortunately. Others on NMW are choosing to heat or eat at the moment and paying high rents whilst working 40 hours a week on £10 an hour and bringing up children. Sorry but you've lost my sympathy, earning £160 per day for 21 contracted hours per week. That's an insult to most workers who are genuinely screwed in most other sectors.