Things that were normal but wouldn't fly these days

[ChopSuey2]

Not really an AIBU but we totally derailed another thread. Following on from the thread about TV programmes that may or may not have been appropriate for young children, I'm wondering what things were totally normal in your childhood but would not be considered acceptable today.

Some of the ones I have been reminded of from the other thread include

• travelling without a seatbelt, in the footwell, in the boot, in the back of a van on a cardboard box
• graphic public safety videos at primary school
• watching graphic true crime under the age of 10
• smoking in cars and homes with kids, smoking in pubs and taking kids to pubs late at night
• playing out under the age of 10 with parents not knowing where their kids are precisely

Ha ha. Yes. Our housemistress would send us out to buy her Senior Service and we'd get 5p for penny sweets. I was about 12 then. I grew up in the 70's and 80's which was a different world

I agree completely. I hope my post didn’t come across as defending smacking, it wasn’t supposed to.

It didn't at all! I'm sorry, the "you" in the second part of my post was meant generically.

Ooh our headmistress was a tight mare, we got nothing for going on her errands. In fact she clipped me across the back of the head when I handed her ciggies over and asked if I could have for going! It was the 70s😅

A lot of these things still fly, just in private.

Being too in tune with your feelings (or may be I should say too obsessed) can become like the ‘be kind’ philosophy, it ends up being toxic. Too much introspection can be bad for you. There’s a certain amount of sense in the keep calm and carry on way of thinking. I do get the feeling though that you experienced bad parenting and that’s not your fault and will obviously colour your views. The only thing you can really do to redress the balance is be the best parent you can be to your own children.

I recall taking a school trip of 14/15 year oldsto London for the day in the early '70s, we stood on the Embankment not far from Westminster Abbey, the Houses of Parliament etc and told them of the things they could go and see, you could wander into Parliament then and have your picture taken outside 10 Downing Street , 'See you back here in three hours'. When they returned they were full of what they'd seen but a small group of boys were a bit late back, they'd gone on the Tube to take pictures outside as many football grounds as they could manage!

I do hope that today's super parents don't get bad headaches from those halos. Myybe if I were around in 30 years I would be reading about today's poor parenting practices that have created a generation many of whom are scared of their own shadow.

I'll thank you not to dismiss my views simply because I have experience of what I'm talking about.

Nobody likes an utterly self obsessed person, but that's nothing to do with child centric parenting. The fact that you think "child centric" means endless navel-gazing just shows you don't know anything about it. It doesn't mean "indulge the child constantly". It means "remember the purpose of this is to raise a secure, balanced, independent and considerate person, not to raise someone who always does what you want and it doesn't matter why".

Hitting is one example of angry, parent-centred parenting, although I could give you plenty of others. The point is, there is literally no benefit to the child and the true purpose of parenting in it. It indulges the parent's anger and frustration, and while it might create immediate compliance, it teaches no reason for behaviour except for "otherwise I'll hit you", which gives the child no incentive except not to get caught. And, of course, creating a stressful environment that doesn't engender long term good behaviour, even if you do temporarily scare them enough.

It also means the parent doesn't learn better methods of communication and self control, which often leaves them fucked when the kid reaches their teens and is now able to hit them right back. And why wouldn't they, when you've taught them that it's a great way to show displeasure?

It is shit parenting. It has been proven to be shit parenting. The next generation refused it because it is shit parenting.

And if the only alternative you can think of is endless self-obsession, that's one of the strongest indicators of what shit parenting it is.

It’s not abusive, but it’s still shit, lazy parenting.

Why? Your son will, hopefully, realise that things have consequences, if he creates problems in the morning he will lose his sleepover as a result. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, you're being his parent, not his friend.

Because I can (and usually do) get that same message through without resorting to threats. Absolutely the parent sets the limits and the boundaries and teaches what is acceptable/unacceptable behaviour. But I strongly believe that teaching can be done in a way that doesn't resort to tactics that I wouldn't want used on myself, such as threats - and indeed that I don't want to hear my kids using on one another.

When you realise you made a mistake and back down, your kids learn that people make mistakes and the important thing is to admit and learn from them. Not just to keep powering through because you're too weak and egotistical to admit you were wrong.

I know the authoritarians won't like that, but it's true. The point isn't to force yourself through as right all the time even when you're not. If you can admit when you were wrong and make changes, your kids are more likely to understand that you're doing things for their ultimate benefit. So they'll pay more attention when you do stick to your guns because you have to. They know that you're not doing it because you're the ultimate authority who must always be right, but because you're doing your job of looking out for them.

And that's what child centric parenting is about.

Halos? What, I think I'm fantastic? You're the one still defending practices known to be shit and harmful.

And why wouldn't you? Hitting is the ultimate technique for stifling thought and growth in both child and parent. It doesn't get much more brainless than that.

If the techniques I use are proven in 30 years to be as bad as that, I'll consider myself educated and apologise to my kids for doing them. I won't be tantrumming about how right I was really and claiming that only perfect people are allowed to notice, criticise and reject shitty parenting.

Myybe if I were around in 30 years I would be reading about today's poor parenting practices that have created a generation many of whom are scared of their own shadow.

This is so rich coming from someone who's scared of admitting that hitting is shit parenting.

Nobody’s dismissing your views. All that people are saying is that there are other perspectives. Just as you’re annoyed with people labelling child-centred parenting as causing introspection and navel gazing because they don’t understand the nuances of it. Other people are annoyed with you because you’re labelling parenting in the 80s and 90s as shit, toxic and abusive without an understanding that whilst parenting styles may have been different that doesn’t mean they’re abusive. Some will have been, most weren’t, just as some modern parenting styles do foster mental health issues in teens but many won’t.

I do not need to be told that there are other perspectives. I have gathered that, on account of the fact that I am refuting them. And when soneone tells me my view that hitting children I shit parenting is "coloured" by the fact that I experienced that shit parenting, that is indeed dismissal. It's particularly ridiculous since they are trying to argue that it is not damaging. "Hitting isn't damaging. You're damaged by hitting? Well obviously if you were hit then that will colour your view."

Give me a sodding break.

Hitting your kids is angry and shitty parenting and has been proven to be so. I'm not backing down on hard fact just because some people just cannot accept that they or their parents did something shitty.

The real question, given that we now know it's shit parenting and it's 2023, is why some people won't just accept and admit that it's shit and it's good that it has fallen out of favour. Why they are not prioritising the rejection of shit parenting techniques. Why they are more concerned about defending themselves than simply condemning the shit and being glad that children don't suffer it so much now because we know better.

As I said earlier, I'm not in this to be parent centric so I'm not prioritising adults' egos and self image. The kids are what matter.

It is shit parenting. Nothing more needs to be said.

smoking on left hand side of the cinema
I often wondered how the smoke was supposed to stay on that side-air conditioning I suppose.

@ReneBumsWombats - you seem to be totally clueless about human nature. Every generation thought they were raising their children the right way, you are just one more in the endless cycle. I agree with a pp in that I hope you don't get a massive headache from your halo. Are you seriously saying that modern parents are perfect and there is no neglect or abuse? News reports, and even threads on MN, say otherwise. You also seem to think that any style of parenting other than your own is "shit parenting", and yet there are millions of well adjusted adults in the world, and many more who have passed away in earlier generations, who are products of this less than perfect parenting style you continually dismiss.

I'm sick of people making up shit I haven't said. I said that hitting your kids is angry, shitty, lazy parenting and was once the norm. I did not say that I was perfect, I did not say all modern day parenting is perfect, I did not say that there's no chance I won't be held to account in 30 years.

The fact that this is what people hear when I say that hitting is shit parenting is frankly ridiculous. But that's what happens when you prioritise adult self-image over what's actually best for children.

Hitting is shit parenting. Some people actually did know it back to the 80s and even earlier but they got accused of all the same rubbish I'm getting right now (you think you're perfect, you think kids should always be totally indulged, you're a big old meanie for criticising me, blah blah blah).

If you know better now, great. Learn from it and stop getting defensive about it because adult egos don't matter. Children do.

Still being friends even if you have different worldviews/thoughts on politics etc.

I was speaking with a large group of friends on this topic a couple of years back and all of those who were smacked as children were on anti depressants or had turned to crime or drugs as teens and those of us who weren’t had not. It was a striking contrast.

Woman are twice as likely to be on anti depressants than men, and white women far more likely than black women. Do you really think white girls are far more likely to be smacked than other children?

Wow, you sure seem angry.

I'm a product of smacking, love. What, you don't like it?

Me too love. Not belts or anything like that but slaps (including across the face), wallops for very minor misdemeanours, clips round the ears etc. I didn’t agree with it so when I had my own children I adopted the no hitting policy (I lapsed once but it was a smack and I never did it again, even though my son laughed as it didn’t hurt it was so feeble).