To think work no longer ‘pays’

[Cuppasoupmonster]

This is a controversial topic so I’m expecting a few biscuits to be thrown at me so I’ve got my hard hat on. Inspired by the ‘benefits overhaul’ thread.

I often see on here that working and owning your own home is always better than claiming benefits and living in social housing. But it seems like the perks are long gone if I’m honest.

It feels like every day I’m dragging myself up at 6am to take my daughter to nursery (when I would much rather have her at home with me), just to pay our enormous mortgage and bills, before breaking even at the end. We haven’t had a holiday in 5 years. A few months ago I went into my overdraft for the first time in about 6-7 years despite the fact my spending is no different. What are the upsides again? Is it just that we get to choose the care home we die in (perhaps)? Because right now I’m feeling pretty pissed off with the whole thing and wondering if anyone else feels the same.

Then why don’t you just find a better one if it’s that easy that doesn’t have you out at 6am and not pay enough for your huge mortgage.

😂😂😂 I’ve now decided you’re definitely on the wind up, especially since you said you vote labour but you’d have been right at home in Truss’ cabinet. Why don’t you go and find another job? Work more hours if it’s so easy to find work and you believe people should be forced to take the first job they’re offered. Get a better job and stop complaining

i didn’t say Pp needs a ‘good’ job; just a full time job. I’ve always worked full time - as a cleaner, waitress, in a cafe, split shifts as a bar maid, admin assistant, and worked to where I am now. There’s a world of difference between this and somebody who indulgently chooses not to work 5 days a week and then expects the taxpayer to foot the bill.

Interestingly the silent majority are with me on the votes 😆

If she got a full time minimum wage job she’d most likely still get universal credit and that would also pay 85% of her childcare. Surely that would just make you even more miserable.

Just goes to show people in the UK have been brainwashed by decades of right wing press bullshit. They have done an excellent job of setting people against each other. Divide and rule, it's a well established tactic.

But then wouldn’t she have all the employment benefits that people keep telling me I have..?

How do the depressed go on in countries without such an excessive welfare system? 🤔

What are you even on about? So if she gets a full time minimum wage job, has the benefits of job security and being able to climb careerwise and still gets 85% of her childcare paid though UC because she’s a low earner, that will make you happy now?

they die sooner through lack of self care or develop fatal physical illness

Is that true? What's your evidence for that?

From my experience with close family members in a developing country it goes one of 2 ways. Suck it up and work anyway. Or turn to drink and drugs, and end up dead or in prison.

@Tekkentime life expectancy in the uk for people with serious mental ill health is 20 years below the average. A quick Google will tell you this, with links to peer reviewed academic research, not anecdote. It worries me that people don't realise the impact mental illness can have and still trivialise it even in 2023.

The impact will be far worse in countries where there is a worse safety net.

I am from a very corrupt - right wing governed 3rd world country with very little help for the poor / uneducated / sick / disabled and needy.

Either the family support them with their own money or they die for lack of care. And we see it as ‘how life is’.

From my experience, they turn to drink and drugs in the uk too. Benefits or not.

You can sell up and move, cut the size of your mortgage, downsize and enjoy the profits. As time goes on your costs will fall as will the capitol on your mortgage. You could be mortgage free by the time you're in your 50's. You've kept a foothold in the emploment market. You chose to buy, you chose to have children and I would hope you worked out if you could afford it first. Your assessment of council tenants is like that of the daily mail. You have options that many don't . When we bought we were talked through the risks and went ahead, we budgeted as to whether we could afford to have our children and are lucky to have secure employment. The years with childcare are always expensive but you should have taken that into account. My family started out in council housing and they all worked, and most went on to own their own home. Private and council renting was the norm up till the 80's.Most of us will have to graft for 50yrs. I started working at 14 and will have to work on till I'm 67 before i get my pensions. Be grateful for the life and luck you have.

Jacob Reese Mogg would also (I imagine) say that people need to live within their means. And you earning £26k already working full time AND unable to go on holiday on that set up, would indicate that you made a very poor financial decision to have a kid.

Yep, suicide by hanging or drug overdose is a big one. In countries with guns, it’s suicide by guns.

or starvation

eating / drink poison - rats poison is very popular

with such weak immune system they develop physical illness that become critical very quickly and with lack of medical treatment they just die

My uncle who was an university professor developed an ilness that affected his brain and spine - he has been on a wheelchair for nealy 20 years and requires 24/7 care

His 2 sisters look after him. One financially since his pension is not enough and the other gave up her life to be his carer - no carer allowance for her or respite - she is now painting and doing jewelry and crafts on her spare time and sometimes she sells it but the goal is to give her satisfaction.

If my uncle didn’t have his sisters, he would be dead many years ago.

Well I didn’t because I’m not in debt 🤷🏼‍♀️ Yknow by living in my means.

her dad ran himself ragged and didn’t spend as much time with her as his lazy neighbour who pleased himself but got exactly the same outcome. Thats what this is about - the fact we all end up with basically the same thing whether we work hard or sit about doing fuck all

It isn't the same outcome, though. Yes, they have ended up in the same home, but that's only the starting point.

The neighbour will have most of his pension taken to offset the home fees (can't remember exactly how much he'll be left with but its something like £5 or £10 a week.) There are a lot of extras to pay for in care homes - you get food, laundry and soap but have to pay for most other toiletries, haircuts, podiatry, physio, a phone and quite often for some care supplies. The neighbour won't be able to afford all these things - or only the most basic options. And if the home deteriorates, he's stuck there. A resident who is paying their own fees has the option to move.

When my dad went into a care home he certainly wasn't 'too demented to care' what happened. He had Parkinsons, but was fully with it mentally. He needed incontience supplies - the NHS would only pay for loose pads, which he couldn't manage because of his tremor. Paying for pull up pants meant he could manage his own continence needs and gave him more privacy and dignity. When that home had a change of staff and care levels deteriorated, he could choose to move to a better place. When a long hospital stay left him too weak to sit up in a chair or lift a spoon to feed himself he was given an NHS physio package. They came once, handed him a sheet of generic exercises, and didn't see him again for 6 weeks. They then signed him off, in exactly the same state he'd started. He was able to pay for a private physio who came for an hour twice a week and got him back to a reasonable level of independence - eating unaided, and able to get around the home in a wheelchair without assistance. When he had hospital appointments he could pay for a wheelchair taxi at the time he needed, and a care assistant to come with him, instead of hanging around all day waiting for hospital transport.

All this was paid for by the proceeds of his house. Someone relying on council funding would have had a very different experience, even if they had started exactly the same home.

Except for that massive mortgage you can’t afford….

Didn’t you say you’d gone into your overdraft?

Yep by a grand total of £20! All paid back now don’t you worry, just had to sell some furniture…

Thats not living within your means then.