Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask you if this is fraud?

147 replies

LucyLeopard · 13/01/2023 17:03

just as background - Colleague is a lovely person and also a single mum to 3 children. I think this must be incredibly tough!

We are fortunate in our job (carers) that we now get our mileage paid from home and not the workplace. It used to be workplace to someone’s home but it’s now from our own home! This has helped everyone with that extra little bit of cost and we can even claim for the drive to work!

the thing is colleague is claiming from an address she doesn’t live at. She actually lives say 2 miles from the workplace but now she’s claiming from her mums house which is 34 miles each way!

I realised this from when she asked me to scan both our mileage sheets in. She’s now making over 100.00 per week in mileage. i know she definitely only lives 2 miles from work as she only invited us round at Christmas.

im really torn, I feel like I 96% should keep my mouth shut but 4% of me has that niggling doubt I should say something!

wwyd?

OP posts:
Sorefootouch · 13/01/2023 20:14

I am a very honest person and value honestly highly in others, but find myself sympathising with her as care work is so bloody hard and badly paid. But then you do it and don’t steal so this must surely wind you up. And the point about if she is stealing from her employers then she might steal from her clients makes me think you should probably shop her.

MadameDe · 13/01/2023 20:19

Unless you have a responsibility to say something, don't get involved. It's between her and her line manager / mile tallyer.

In saying this, if you are more senior should you be really friendly with someone you work closely with? I love my colleagues but I think professional distance is everything. I'm in a position where I have to be brutally honest with colleagues and it wouldn't go down well if I treated them like my friends

StubbleAndSqueak · 13/01/2023 20:43

@hmmmintereting her 'friend' is playing a blinder , she knows exactly what she's doing
@Tandora she'd be complicit, try explaining that away

Tandora · 13/01/2023 20:53

StubbleAndSqueak · 13/01/2023 20:43

@hmmmintereting her 'friend' is playing a blinder , she knows exactly what she's doing
@Tandora she'd be complicit, try explaining that away

She’s in no way complicit. Got nothing to do with her. Not her travel claim, not her job to check, not her home/ travel/ work arrangements . Literally has nothing to do with her whatsoever.

CombatBarbie · 13/01/2023 21:57

Is mum doing the childcare when friend is at work?

k1233 · 13/01/2023 22:35

Fraud = benefit (here financial advantage) through deception

Fraud usually starts small then, when the fraudulent person gets away with it and gets comfortable, it escalates.

The other thing to consider is if your employer has a code of conduct. Once it gets found out she's fraudulently claiming travel she's not entitled to, you can bet someone will remember you going to her new place and will query why you didn't say anything. Were you in on it? At best it will be decided you knew she'd moved but continued to process her fraudulent mileage claim - that would be a code of conduct breach.

From Australia but an interesting read on fraud and why people do it, also how it escalates. Some of the case studies - wow. Initially small claims that end up as $1.4m over a prolonged time.

www.counterfraud.gov.au/explore-fraud-problem

JudgeRudy · 13/01/2023 22:42

I don't think this one would pull at my conscience. I'd guess she is 'staying' with her boyfriend but 'officially' lives with her mum. I doubt for one moment she's on the lease or paying CT....she's just stayed over longer and longer. If you stayed over somewhere that brought you closer to your base and reduced your mileage would you tell your employer about it? What about a week? A month? She is effectively just staying over .....a lot.
If that's her official address it's up to her if she chooses to stay there.

TellMeWhere · 13/01/2023 22:55

Well I'd be pissed off if my colleague was scamming an extra £400, while I was being honest. She's effectively given herself a payrise. Why is the scammer more deserving than OP?

I don't think "single parent" is a good enough reason, especially when two out of three "kids" are fully grown adults!

I'm more surprised that so many people think it's OK to cheat your employer.

If you like her, then give her the opportunity to fix it. If she doesn't do so, then say something. You aren't the one in the wrong.

Coffeetableposhbooks · 13/01/2023 22:59

Yes it’s fraud, but not fraud I’d eve report and I’d judge anyone who did

Glitterybee · 13/01/2023 23:09

Usually I would say turn a blind eye but the fact you’re scanning these for her implicates you…

Wrongsideofpennines · 13/01/2023 23:15

Yes it is fraud. I wouldn't report her but have a quiet word with her about how it is fraudulent and if she gets found out it would be a disciplinary matter and she may have to pay the money back as well as losing her job. Up to her then what she does about it.

Hoplesscynic · 13/01/2023 23:26

Of course she is committing fraud, she is defrauding the company. £400 per month is some serious cash she is making! She is most definitely not a lovely person and not trustworthy. The fact she is a single mother of 3 (adults) is also irrelevant.
I personally wouldn't be able to just watch this go on and say nothing. She absolutely deserves to be reported and if she gets fired that would be her own doing.

Mouldyfoodhelp · 13/01/2023 23:29

How are some calling Almost £5k a year is a little extra?

rwalker · 13/01/2023 23:49

We’d be sacked in a heartbeat for fiddling expenses for £4 let alone £400
what generally happens is shit like this found out and the perk stops for everyone

Contrary to popular belief many care companies are struggling to break even paying min wage even when they are charging clients over £20 an hour

Mark19735 · 14/01/2023 00:01

This sounds like a matter of conscience between a colleague and her employer.

I don't see what the OP having an opinion on the probity of that has to do with anything. There is no duty to report it, and frankly, no benefit to the OP in reporting it either.

There are many scenarios in which the colleague's conduct could be legitimate and reasonable. For one - she may have spoken to her line manager and been told it was acceptable. But there is also the possibility that it is, indeed, fraud. If that's the case, then I'm sure that eventually the employer will find out and take appropriate action. That day will surely come.

Let's just hope that day is, oh I don't know, a couple hundred thousand days from today, eh?

Stopthebusplease · 14/01/2023 00:31

As she's supposed to be your friend OP, I think I would ask her if everything is alright. When she asks what you mean, you could say 'well, I noticed you're claiming mileage from your Mum's, when I thought you were living at ....' She may then say, 'oh yes, I only live with my BF at weekends', or 'I've split up with BF and am back at Mum's for the time being', or 'Mum's broken her leg, is sick, whatever, so I'm temporarily living back at hers'. If however, the answer is, 'no everything's fine, but I thought as when I joined the company I gave them Mum's address, I might as well claim from there, and make a few extra quid a month, as it's not hurting anyone', then I would point out that she's actually committing fraud, which makes you feel uncomfortable, and in actual fact isn't fair on you, or other staff who aren't making the extra few quid a month, and tell her she needs to amend her address and start claiming properly. You don't need to say you'll dob her in, but I think the inference would be clear, then after that, it's up to her.

JustForABitofFun · 14/01/2023 00:31

She is the sort of person who messes it up for everyone else. Before you know it this "benefit" could stop and, thanks to her, you will no longer be able to claim from your home address.

I personally wouldn't like it as I tend to do everything by the book!

JustForABitofFun · 14/01/2023 00:32

Muddlingmiddling · 13/01/2023 17:34

So many snitches on MN

Or maybe so many honest people!

NumberTheory · 14/01/2023 01:26

Given the work you do - caring for people, so (I’m assuming) going into vulnerable people’s homes with the need for trust that that implies - I think there is a moral duty to report her if you are pretty certain she’s lying. Dishonesty doesn’t tend to be so limited that the only thing she’d ever take advantage of is her employers mileage policy.

BarbaraofSeville · 14/01/2023 06:30

OP, best thing to do could be to mention to her that you know she's doing it and suggest that she should stop before they notice, which surely they will fairly soon as her mileage payments will be so much more than anyone else's.

After all, unless you're in a very rural area with no local jobs how many carers are going to be working 34 miles away from home?

I bet everyone who works there lives 5 or 10 miles away at most. It's just not the sort of job that people do a big commute for because there's always going to be similar work much closer to home.

Bagwyllydiart · 14/01/2023 06:53

She is a thief and should be prosecuted as such.

ginislife · 14/01/2023 07:37

@tappinginto2023 your post is rubbish. Local authorities either dictate the rate they will pay to domiciliary care agencies or they put it out to tender, you quote your rate and that's what's paid. Care agencies DO NOT charge what they like. They do possibly charge a higher private rate but that's to try to claw back some of the money they're losing on the low rate the council pays but they still have to be competitive. The LA want to pay the least they can and that's why carers are low paid - because they won't pay a decent rate.

goldennotyetoldie · 14/01/2023 08:09

IneedanewTV · 13/01/2023 18:53

It will get picked up quite quickly OP as payroll, HMRC and auditors will at some stage check all reimbursements especially £400 a month. She will lose her job as it is theft/fraud. You don’t need to report her (as long as you don’t sign it off). Seems like most people on MN think it’s ok to steal from their employers. We don’t know the size of the company so really can’t say whether it matters or not. If she is fiddling her mileage I still think it raises doubt over her morals.

In my industry it's not uncommon for expenses to be in the thousands every month, with mileage being hundreds of miles at 45 p or so a mile. Carers are likely to be less than this, but £100 a week is only 200 ish miles a week, so not an obviously huge amount that would be a red flag to an auditor.

HMRC don't check it.

Oh, also worth noting for any of you who claim mileage. If your company does not reimburse you for the maximum allowed per mile (45p a mile up to 10k, 25p after that) you an claim tax relief on the difference via a P87 form. If you do a lot of miles it can add up to a decent amount. And you can claim for retrospective years.

rainbowstardrops · 14/01/2023 08:14

Well she's being a bit stupid isn't she. If she gets caught then that'll be the end of her job and a potential criminal record.
I'd also be worried if I were you because you're kind of connected to the deceit.
I would talk to her and say it isn't on and take it from there.

StubbleAndSqueak · 14/01/2023 09:35

@Tandora you sound very immature, you cannot ignore the fact she is gaining money by lying, it's just wrong