Does anyone else think that religion is a bit of an odd protected characteristic?

[ADHDPI]

I may be way off the mark here as it is only a thought that has popped into my head just now.

As an atheist, I have quite strong feelings about religion and find it all quite bizarre and absurd. However, if I said that to someone religious in my office I could potentially be sacked due to criticism of their protected characteristic.

I just don't feel it is the same as saying a similar comment about disability, ethnicity, sex etc. Of course I don't think anyone should be actively discriminated against because of their religion, but no more so than because of the colour of someone's eyes. It doesn't effect anyone else. It's more the fact that I as an atheist cannot voice my opinion about religion without insulting a protected characteristic and vice versa.... Yet its generally OK to believe that God doesn't exist. Odd!

Thoughts? Have I missed something? Am I being far too black and white here?

I don't think I've been aggressive, at, have I?

People in professional roles don't generally go.round talking about their beliefs it would be a bit odd,and inappropriate surely ?

Sorry i.meant to.quite @CosmicVaginaBiscuit

That's not what it means though.
To be reprimanded because you have said something to someone re their religion, that would be due to your company's bullying and harassment policy and that would extend to far more than religion and philosophy.
As a protected characteristic, it means you can't discriminate ie a person of faith can't refuse to hire you due to your atheism, or you can't refuse to hire a Catholic because of their faith, and you must consider reasonable adjustments like holidays, feast days etc.

of course I don't think anyone should be actively discriminated against because of their religion

This is why.

Extreme Christian’s aren’t the only religion who see women and gay people as second class citizens. Do you openly ridicule Muslims then? The extreme side of their faith also has discriminatory principles.

I find that quite challenging, and get myself into a sort internal "ideological top trumps".

Despite being an atheist, who privately feels that all religions involve belief in "sky fairies" of one sort or another, if that's someone's belief, I think it should be respected. But an awful lot of bigotry against women, gay and bi people, and other faiths has its roots in one religion or another.

I really struggle to accept such beliefs.

You say you find religion ‘all bizarre and absurd’. That to me is a pretty aggressive statement to begin a post with. If I had begun a post by saying ‘I find atheism bizarre and absurd’ you would no doubt have thought me aggressive.

I'm an atheist, I wouldn't find that aggressive.

Given the persecution of religious folk in history I can kind of see why it is. I am an atheist. But the law prevents people with a religious belief from being fired because of that belief (or needing a certain day off for practicing their belief).

You can say what you like about your own views on religion - it is a myth that you can't. As long as you are being respectful and considerate. It is so that employers can't stop you getting a job cos you believe in a god. I think thats fair.

There's no requirement to accept or respect other people's beliefs. The requirement is to accept and respect other people's right to hold those beliefs and not discriminate against people because of their beliefs.

@Crabo "You say you find religion ‘all bizarre and absurd’. That to me is a pretty aggressive statement to begin a post with. If I had begun a post by saying ‘I find atheism bizarre and absurd’ you would no doubt have thought me aggressive."

Aggressive? Come on. This isn't a playground. If you don't like what someone says that is perfectly okay. Words aren't violence.

Harassment related to a protected characteristic is unlawful conduct in the equality act.

Harassment is unwanted conduct related to a relevant protected characteristic that has the purpose or effect of violating your dignity, or creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for you.

Whether the unwanted conduct amounts to harassment doesn't just depend on your perceptions but also on the surrounding circumstances and whether it is reasonable for the conduct to have that effect.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/26

Agnostic here - I find that many people find solace in their religious beliefs which is great. I also find that many people cast off their personal choices and responsibilities in the name of whatever organized religion they believe in or subscibe to which is not so great.

All religions have extremes that a few subscribe to and sometimes their religious beliefs enter into other non-religious aspects of their lives and expect others to pay credence to them too.

It's a very difficult realm to negotiate, you can't do right without doing wrong if you are a non-believer in their particular religion, even sent to hell (or similar) if you believe in a different religion.

I just nod politely and agree with the good points of their religion if it's up for discussion but do draw the line when it's stated that those that don't similarly believe go to hell, are lesser people, etc.

I don't think that's aggressive at all. It's my genuine opinion, a lot of people disagree and think atheism is bizarre and absurd. Fair enough, if that's what you believe.

I think I've made a fair effort to actually take in what people have said on this thread and I've learnt a lot. I agree that religion should be a protected characteristic, I wasn't sure when I initially posted.

I have no problem with it but the OP was complaining about religious people being aggressive. With respect I have noticed that atheists tend to have a different set of rules for themselves than other people. I can debate as robustly as you like as I believe atheism is an unprovable fantasy (even Dawkins says he’s only 70% sure God doesn’t exist!) and am sure of my faith, but we are not debating here the validity of faith but the right of people to religious view - ie the right to religious freedom - which includes, btw the right to disbelieve. A right God gives us all.

@x2boys I was thinking more of childcare, possibly too specific on my part but as you say you wouldn't expect people to go on about religion in a professional environment. I was wondering if I employed e.g. a Christian / Muslim / Jewish nanny would they be praying or teaching my child about Jesus or not feeding them ham sandwiches or something, because of their religious beliefs.
As a PP says I find it difficult to respect many religions because of their basic starting point with women as second class citizens, and homophobic views. Not for me.

Well I would hope a professional Nanny would keep.their personal beliefs to themselves as it really wouldn't be appropriate to bring their.beliefs into.the work place and if they couldn't than I wouldn't blame you for not employing them

I think you would do well to educate yourself on faith rather than starting with assumptions.

Catholicism, Islam, the Christian American right - that covers a large swathe of faith-based nonsense. It's all irredeemably misogynistic and homophobic (unless you indulge in the type of logical gymnastics that religion often delights in: that keeping women in the home is showing them respect, and that god made people gay to teach them the virtues of self denial).

@Crabo I'm not making assumptions, I'm wondering what would be the position if I were to employ someone to look after my child, and they went on to share their religious views with my child or let their views influence their treatment of our child.
I went to a convent school, I know that Catholicism has many mysoginistic practices and homophobia, we learned about other religions and many of them did not seem any better.
I have a Muslim fríend who drinks alcohol and smokes and parties (but will absolutely not eat pork). At his wedding there was a separate room for alcohol to be served in, because some of his family didn't want to be around it. I know not every member of every religion subscribes to all the beliefs (like many Catholics ignore the teachings on contraception or sex before marriage).
So many religions have an awful lot to say about sex, usually with a heap of judgement on women.
I believe companies should not be able to discriminate due to religion, I already said that upthread.

Just to say that if you wanted to book your children into our playgroup at our church it is oversubscribed. The atmosphere is so friendly that ladies (and some men) of all persuasions seem to be drawn to it with their kids. We did take some Christmas hampers out to those in need at Christmas to give them a good Christmas. If that is what you were talking about in ‘sharing religious views’ that is what we do.

I'm not talking about sharing Christmas hampers, I also donate to a food bank. You don't have to be religious to think of others. While many religions have an ethos of helping others I personally feel it is overshadowed by their treatment of women or teachings on sex or homosexuality.
I went to a playgroup in a local CoE church, I didn't like it because the songs were singing thank you God for this that and the other. I wouldn't want my nanny teaching DC about god(s) or saying grace before meals or telling them that God is everywhere or whatever. I'm happy for them to learn about religions but not to be indoctrinated. This is only a tiny and quite specific detour from the original question about discrimination, and religion as a protected characteristic.
Thinking it over I think it is good that it's protected, but where there is a conflict religion should not trump innate characteristics like sex or sexual orientation.

You seem very jumpy and threatened about someone saying grace. I wouldn’t think that someone saying grace is exactly ‘indoctrination’. Amazing how much indoctrination takes place and you don’t turn the hair over the media and whatever yet somebody’s saying grace causes your hackles to rise.

Come on, a nanny is an important person in a child's life, spends a lot of time with the child, and is in a position to have a lot of influence on a child's developing worldview and value system. By hiring a particular person as a nanny, you implicitly communicate to the child(ren) that this is a person to be trusted and obeyed.

It's not "jumpy and threatened" to say that you would not want to hire a nanny who would actively teach your children a worldview that's completely different to your own — not just teaching them about different religions, but teaching them to practice that religion.

If you aren't religious, or you believe in a different god or gods, or have another religious worldview that doesn't involve any gods, then why would you want your nanny to communicate the importance of praying to show gratitude towards the nanny's god at every meal your children take with them? I think you'd struggle to find many people, religious or not, who'd want a major, trusted figure in their young child's life to be actively teaching the child to follow religious practices different from the family's own beliefs

But I wasn’t talking about hiring a nanny I was talking about saying grace at a mums and tots group. I hardly think that is ‘teaching the child religious practices.’ Besides if your own views are so correct and right what is the problem of exposing your child to different views? My children were brought up Christians but we’re of necessity exposed to secular views all the time at school. Just that I believe the arguments for faith are rational and historical and can take being exposed to different views. See Professor John Lennox on that
So I assume you would also make sure your nanny had all the correct political opinions and talked the correct PC speak?