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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Does anyone else think that religion is a bit of an odd protected characteristic?

263 replies

ADHDPI · 13/01/2023 14:13

I may be way off the mark here as it is only a thought that has popped into my head just now.

As an atheist, I have quite strong feelings about religion and find it all quite bizarre and absurd. However, if I said that to someone religious in my office I could potentially be sacked due to criticism of their protected characteristic.

I just don't feel it is the same as saying a similar comment about disability, ethnicity, sex etc. Of course I don't think anyone should be actively discriminated against because of their religion, but no more so than because of the colour of someone's eyes. It doesn't effect anyone else. It's more the fact that I as an atheist cannot voice my opinion about religion without insulting a protected characteristic and vice versa.... Yet its generally OK to believe that God doesn't exist. Odd!

Thoughts? Have I missed something? Am I being far too black and white here?

OP posts:
Marths · 18/01/2023 09:28

Crabo · 18/01/2023 08:24

I would have thought that in our secular society one thing that is protected is the right not to believe!

There is a state religion.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/01/2023 09:45

There is a state religion.
But no one should now be privileged by belonging to it or discriminated against for not belonging, that's the point.

Of course, there's still some shameful exceptions around schools admissions (I live in an area with a ludicrous excess of faith schools), but we have the freedom to campaign about our children being discriminated against at least.

JarByTheDoor · 18/01/2023 10:05

Crabo · 18/01/2023 07:04

There you go. I was right. You are is jumpy is anything. Simple history lesson of fact is taken as proselytising. So Anthony Ashley Cooper should be cancelled from history because his Christianity does not agree with your views?

Nobody's trying to "cancel" anyone from history. What point were you trying to make about parents' right to choose a nanny who won't actively teach a religion the parents don't follow, with the particular fact you selected? The proselytising angle is that you selected this historical story to tell, in this particular context, and you had a motive for doing so.

ShodanLives · 18/01/2023 10:28

Crabo · 17/01/2023 21:05

first I would not employ a nanny as it is the parents job to bring up kids not farm them out. However, one does expect professionalism in the workplace and one would certainly not expect a nanny to go against the wishes of parents. Incidentally you might be interested that Anthony Ashley Cooper, Earl of Shaftesbury had a brutal and uncaring father but a loving nanny who prayed with him and taught him the basics of the Christian faith. Later in life it was the Christian faith that drove Shaftesbury to become a major force in factory reform for children and women, as well as freeing then from the mines and chimneys. So some good can come of teaching a kid to pray!

Using childcare is not farming out kids ffs.

ArtixLynx · 18/01/2023 10:33

i think it depends.. i'm Pagan, and a practising Witch, i'm always happy to discuss religion/faith/belief if people have questions.

However, i DO have a right to be protected at work from Christians who want to call me a Satanist, or leave evil eyes/crosses on my desk, or tell me they'll pray for me to save me from the Devil, or refusing to include me in things, or refuse promotions or opportunities because of my faith.. all which are things which HAVE happened in the past.

Crabo · 18/01/2023 12:35

JarByTheDoor · 18/01/2023 10:05

Nobody's trying to "cancel" anyone from history. What point were you trying to make about parents' right to choose a nanny who won't actively teach a religion the parents don't follow, with the particular fact you selected? The proselytising angle is that you selected this historical story to tell, in this particular context, and you had a motive for doing so.

As you indeed have a motive for writing what are you did of course!

JarByTheDoor · 18/01/2023 12:42

Crabo · 18/01/2023 12:35

As you indeed have a motive for writing what are you did of course!

Obviously. My motive is that I think it's okay for people to decide not to employ a person as a nanny to help raise their children, if that person intends to train the children in a religion the parents don't share (and I'm backed up by the law in that), and that I wanted to draw out from you what you thought about that.

Your motive in posting a carefully-selected lovely positive story about a person who credited their philanthropy to a nanny who taught them to be a Christian was… what?

ErrolTheDragon · 18/01/2023 14:08

Your motive in posting a carefully-selected lovely positive story about a person who credited their philanthropy to a nanny who taught them to be a Christian was… what?

That sometimes farming out kids can work out well?Grin

Crabo · 18/01/2023 14:55

It was just giving a point of view - like you were just giving a point of view! I don’t see why you must be so jumpy that everyone who gives a different point of view over the Internet must be accused of proselytising

JarByTheDoor · 18/01/2023 14:58

Mmhmm, and what was the point of view? What was the point that you were using the example to illustrate?

Crabo · 18/01/2023 15:23

JarByTheDoor · 18/01/2023 14:58

Mmhmm, and what was the point of view? What was the point that you were using the example to illustrate?

Just to counter your point that the Christian faith is not the negative force sone people were making it out to be. I can give you dozens of examples if you like but I might be accused of proselytising. Just trying to balance the books a bit

AltheaVestr1t · 18/01/2023 15:25

89redballoons · 13/01/2023 14:37

As a very lapsed Catholic, I'm not sure I agree that religion is something you choose freely.

In lots of societies, religion is deeply intertwined with ethnicity, nationality, culture, class - things you can't change and some of which are protected characteristics.

Human rights law, which underpins the Eqaulity Act, developed as a response to WW2 and the Nazi atrocities against Jewish people. The Nazis weren't really interested in how faithful or devout the Jews they persecuted were. Nazi thought was much more based on race/culture than on religious belief.

Also, thinking practically about current UK law, if (eg) religion wasn't a protected characteristic but nationality was, then if (eg) you wanted to not employ many Polish or Irish people you could just say no Catholics. So it would create a loophole.

Yep. OP, you are massively missing the point. Belief in religion may be 'bizarre' when taken out of context, but religion is deeply rooted in sociology, culture, history, ethnicity and many other aspects of life. In addition to which, freedom of belief is a basic human right. How about if I was sacked for distributing Christmas cards? Are people still allowed to wear crosses? Should Muslims be forced to eat pork? What if they are vegetarian? Your argument breaks down almost immediately. So yes, as a fellow atheist, YABU. Don't be ridiculous.

JarByTheDoor · 18/01/2023 15:38

Crabo · 18/01/2023 15:23

Just to counter your point that the Christian faith is not the negative force sone people were making it out to be. I can give you dozens of examples if you like but I might be accused of proselytising. Just trying to balance the books a bit

I've said absolutely nothing about whether Christianity is a negative force.

It's interesting that you perceive a defence of parents' right to raise their child according to their own beliefs, and their right not to employ someone who actively teaches their child practices from other religions, as anti-Christian.

I wonder why, in the UK, you would think that a stance against parents being required to allow others to impose different religious teachings on their children is an attack on Christianity specifically.

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