Does anyone else think that religion is a bit of an odd protected characteristic?

[ADHDPI]

I may be way off the mark here as it is only a thought that has popped into my head just now.

As an atheist, I have quite strong feelings about religion and find it all quite bizarre and absurd. However, if I said that to someone religious in my office I could potentially be sacked due to criticism of their protected characteristic.

I just don't feel it is the same as saying a similar comment about disability, ethnicity, sex etc. Of course I don't think anyone should be actively discriminated against because of their religion, but no more so than because of the colour of someone's eyes. It doesn't effect anyone else. It's more the fact that I as an atheist cannot voice my opinion about religion without insulting a protected characteristic and vice versa.... Yet its generally OK to believe that God doesn't exist. Odd!

Thoughts? Have I missed something? Am I being far too black and white here?

I know where you are coming from (atheist here)

Sex, ethnicity etc cannot be changed, but you can change religion ,so why protect

I can see your point. Ultimately religion is something that people choose so expecting legal protection due to lifestyle choices is a bit odd. But then so is gender reassignment and it’s protected. However the religion and belief characteristic includes a lack of belief so as an atheist you are also protected.

I agree with you. Nobody has the right to have their belief in the supernatural respected/protected from scrutiny. Having the right to hold preposterous beliefs isn't the same as having the right to gag other people from interrogating them, or even ridiculing them.

Of course you can say you find religion or belief in God absurd. You wouldn’t be fired for saying that.

The law protects people from Islamophobia and Anti-semitism both of which are on the rise in the U.K. and across Europe. It isn’t at all ridiculous to have enshrined in law that you can’t say ‘all Muslims are terrorists’ in the workplace and can’t refuse to hire someone Jewish because they’re Jewish.

As an atheist, I have quite strong feelings about religion and find it all quite bizarre and absurd. However, if I said that to someone religious in my office I could potentially be sacked due to criticism of their protected characteristic.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be sacked if you were talking about all religion in general, and not just their specific one?

Either way, I don't think it's a conversation for the workplace.

And this was my point. As an atheist, by saying I believe religion is a nonsense, which I'm allowed to do, in directly insulting someone else on the basis of their protected characteristic. It's a bit odd that two protected characteristics are the opposite of each other. But then again for say landlords or employers to discriminate purely based on a religious belief would of course be wrong so, who knows.

This.

Whereas belief in gender identity is equivalent to a religious belief, but the right not to believe in that isn't protected.

But surely it’d be wrong for it to be possible to advertise (say) for a mechanic and say Catholics only, or no Buddhists. Isn’t that why religion is a protected characteristic? So that people do genuinely have freedom of religion?

Would think it’s fair if someone fired you for saying you’re an atheist? If not, that’s why it’s a protected characteristic.

I doubt you'd be sacked for saying you don't believe in God and find religion absurd.It would be an unusual topic of conversation in the workplace though.

People experience discrimination for their religious belief and discrimination is not the same as someone else expressing a different view.

I'm an atheist RS teacher. You can say you don't believe it without insulting it and calling it absurd, as I frequently have to explain to the students. It's protected because for most people it's so ingrained in them from birth, upbringing etc that it is a fundamental part of their identity. I do think there are difficulties in areas such as circunmcision, halal or kosher slaughtering techniques, or the clash between a traditional scriptural view of homosexuality and equality law etc where traditional practice is contrary to modern UK views, but in general terms, I think it is right that it is protected, probably increasingly so as it becomes less and less common.

This is a daft argument though. I mean, I wouldn't want someone to sack me because I wear a yellow t-shirt, but I don't think the want to wear yellow t-shirts should be a protected characteristic.

I’m not religious at all, but I personally am thankful that people of all religions are protected. Can you imagine if employers started saying they wouldn’t employ Muslims because Ramadan was a bit inconvenient?

It is religion or belief - it’s the same grounds under which your atheism is protected. Saying religious is nonsense might be a protected manifestation of your non belief, depending on context.

many people find religion ridiculous and irrational, but that doesn’t make it any less sacred/core to who they are for believers. If you are one (whether about a religious or deeply held philosophical belief) - it doesn’t feel like you can change it, any more than you can any other aspect of who you are as a person. It should remain protected on that basis IMO - with protection obviously not extending to believers trying to force their belief on others.

This thread is so goady. You obviously know the difference between “being an atheist” and “saying that religion is bizarre/absurd/nonsense”. You can be an atheist and not be a dick - 99% of atheists manage it. Regardless, you wouldn’t be fired for your belief. But you could be if it weren’t protected. If a Catholic person said Islam was “nonsense” they’d have the same repercussions as if you said Catholicism is “nonsense”. Your atheism is a protected characteristic just like everyone else’s belief. You’re not complaining about religion being protected, you’re just complaining that people don’t like you be rude under the guise of it being your “belief”.

Sure. And I don't have conversations like that at work. But actually I do believe it is absurd, and I think it's bizarre that people believe in something they've never had proof of, and I think it's all a bit daft and cringe worthy. It bothers me that a belief (or non belief) that I have is up there in the list eotj racism and sexism when it comes to protected characteristics. I don't think it's the same. I do see what you mean though, and I am more than willing to have my mind changed!

You probably wouldn’t be sacked for that, and protected characteristics aren’t protected in the sense people aren’t allowed to comment, it’s more that you can’t be sacked or disadvantaged because of them. So you could say you think religion is absurd (but probably get told workplace discussions need to be appropriate) but you couldn’t refuse to give someone a promotion on the basis that they’re Muslim for example

Religion - which includes lack thereof - is something which unfortunately in the real world is a pretty common source of discrimination.

I'm not sure there's any grounds for someone getting into trouble for a civil discussion of beliefs (or lack thereof). Its if that turns into harassment or worse - then that not acceptable.

I'm an atheist, I'm glad we have this characteristic, which at least partially protects us too. (Of course schools are allowed to discriminate against our kids )

But if your religion said God would judge you for not wearing a yellow t shirt and it was necessary for your faith, you would react very badly to being told not too.

And this was my point. As an atheist, by saying I believe religion is a nonsense, which I'm allowed to do, in directly insulting someone else on the basis of their protected characteristic

Can you not see that saying “I don’t believe in religion” is very different to saying to someone “I believe religion is nonsense”?

I would be very unhappy if any of my employees said they think religion is nonsense in a work environment. That is not a difference of opinion, it’s telling someone with a different view that you think their view is nonsense.

You think my argument is “daft” and then produce that in response? Ok then. 😂You’re not posting in good faith, you’re just looking to be told how silly religion is so you can feel justified in insulting it. I’m not religious but I’d much rather spend time talking to someone about their religion than listening to someone jabbing at others’ faith for no reason. You’re just as protected, you’ve invented a reason to be annoyed that doesn’t exist.

I get where you are coming from but yes I do think you are looking at it a bit too black and white.

The law is set to protect people from a higher level discrimination such as getting refused jobs, entry to places, services and sometimes verbally and physically attacked.

Unfortunately some (but definitely not all) people use it as a wall to prevent their religion getting put up for debate.

Why do you think you're not allowed to say you think religion is nonsense and don't believe in God?

Religion as a protected characteristic isn't about stopping people expressing their religious views but about preventing discrimination on the grounds of religion. So you're not allowed to deny someone a service or a job on the ground that they are Jewish, say. Arguing that this should not apply because people choose their religion is a bit misguided (it's not the same sort of choice as choosing to drive a blue car or a red one but rather for many people one which is intimately connected with their cultural and ethnic heritage) and a violation of the principle of religious freedom (which includes your own freedom not to believe).

The Equality Act doesn't prevent you from insulting people. You're quite free to call any religious belief ridiculous and religious people are quite entitled to tell you that you're going to burn in hell for all eternity. But you can't discriminate against each other in employment or the provision of services.