To think most people who phone for an ambulance could make their own way to hospital?

[fillmeup]

Either by getting family or friends to drive them there or getting a taxi. Obviously if you’re on the floor with a broken hip etc and can’t be moved or had a severe stroke an ambulance is required but most people I’ve heard on the news recently talking about how long they have waited, I’ve seriously wondered why they waited 20 hours (or thereabouts) and didn’t just get a lift.

I've got a taxi with chest pain and shortness of breath. Was told off by the triage nurse and taken straight through to resus.

fillmeup · Today 22:23
I’m not suggesting you drive yourself if you can’t breathe, but if someone could drive you to hospital quicker than waiting for an ambulance surely you’d be better off.“

It doesn’t work like that! If you are accepted as a 999 ambulance emergency, you are triaged at home and if taken in by the ambulance crew taken in asap. If you arrive at A&E reception under your own steam, you can sit waiting for hours on end before you are triaged.

Anyone who is suffering a genuine medical emergency (life threatening) should still call 999.

@babsanderson I’m confused as to what you’re saying? No one is suggesting you don’t call an ambulance for a heart attack.

My GP is a "phone at 8am to get an appointment" one.
I am loathe to even go to minors anyway. I have a ton of patient alerts on my file. I get treated like shit because of my MH diagnosis. Happens every time.
Am borrowing a walking boot from a friend and hoping for the best.

They do. I have had a home visit. But it is reserved for those who really need it.

Yes but how would Joe Bloggs know it's a heart attack? All they would know is that they have pain.

I completely agree. There are two parents, a "small crowd" and a boy with a cut foot. Tie a tourniquet around it and (literally) hop on! I wouldn't have dreamed of calling an ambulance for that.

They wouldn’t but any central crushing chest pain should be treated as an MI and 999 should be called. This thread isn’t about chest pain and potential MIs is about using ambulances for things like a cut to the foot ! Where yes hospital is required but no need for an ambulance

My DM is 98. They have never visited her when she’s spoken to her surgery. She has to walk to see them. It’s appalling. She won’t admit to me there’s anything wrong. The GPS don’t give a sh*t! How ill and old do you have to be to get a visit? Neither does anyone do a home from hospital visit either. Just left to get on with it. At 98. No care assessment. Nothing. No wonder beds are clogged.

Actually not being able to park is an issue. I drove my 3 year to A and E from the GPs surgery during an asthma attack. GP had suggested an ambulance but since I had my car I thought driving him would be quicker. Problem is the hospital is an a main road with nowhere you can stop the car and the car park was completely full. I was literally freaking out, considering dumping my car and just grabbing him and running in for help but what then? I'd have blocked the way for somwone else in an emergency or for an ambulance. It was fucking terrifying I drove round the whole carpark before finding a space and just running in without paying. I genuinely found the parking almost as stressful as him being so ill. Not leaving the car could have meant he didn't get help.in time but dumping could have meant someone else not getting help.

Lots of people don’t need Accident and Emergency either. They are neither. If you drive in, no one sees you anyway!

Even if I had chest pain, I would get my husband to drive me to hospital or even try to drive myself if I possibly could. If one of my children started having a fit (for example) absolutely no way would I wait around for an ambulance. This isn't because I'm the ambulance police (like some on the thread) and think some people, even with poor, frightened judgement, don't deserve an ambulance. Its because the NHS has been so run into the ground by the government I wouldn't trust a ambulance to come quickly.

Totally depends on the situation. My DF had a heart attack, DM recognised his symptoms, got him in the car and drove the 10 miles to hospital. If they had lived closer they perhaps would have called an ambulance, but driving was the best option. Another family member was also driven by car to hospital with a pulmonary embolism. The situation just meant they would have been better off driving there than waiting for an ambulance at home. Both very stressful situations for the drivers though!

I think that the underfunding and staffing issues in many NHS services is resulting in the ambulance service being used in place of urgent (but non-emergency) GP and MH appointments. There was an article about a month ago (Guardian I think) that stated that only 50% of patients for ambulances that are sent out even require a trip to hospital and of those that are taken in many are not emergencies. It is clear that if people could see a GP within a couple of days many would not call an ambulance

I think that Britain also needs to find a better solution for non-life threatening MH patients. Having recently watched several ambulance docu-series they seem to be a large proportion of workload yet many do not require a fully equipped ambulance, nor I would think, do many people in MH crisis benefit from being taken to wait in a chaotic A&E for hours and hours

DH has been taken in by ambulance once and that was after we phoned 111 and they sent one. The ambulance was here in under an hour in March last year. He was taken in on the Tuesday, had surgery on the Wednesday and was kicked out on Thursday. He had Cauda Equina which they class as urgent but non life threatening.

If 111 send an ambulance there is often not a lot you can do as they don’t tell you what they think it might be or ask if you can make your own way there.

Worth saying that I do think a lot of people think that because they have come in by ambulance that they will be seen quicker. Not the case. You’re triaged and put into the queue, that’s it. I’ve spent a lot of time in A&E over the last few years and I’m sure some people are there just because they’re lonely, bored or any other number of reasons. Bank holidays and Christmas are like a ghost town. I was at A&E on Christmas Eve and was seen and back home within 4 hours.

Driving with a dislocated shoulder is incredibly dangerous, you could have ended up killing someone.

There definitely needs to be more done to stop people misusing the ambulance service but not to the extent where people who need one refuse and end up in a worse situation.

Call handlers could advise alternatives eg minor injuries unit, take a taxi etc.

When I dislocated my knee I was initially told by 111 to make my own way to hospital. There was no way I could get downstairs and in a car so they sent a first responder. Gas & air, popped it back in and I was able to make my own way to a&e to have it xrayed.

The system needs more contingencies built in, and there needs to be massive investment in mental health and care services.

A lot of the problems at the moment are being caused by people ready to be discharged but with no care/suitable accommodation in place.

People need to face the realities of getting older and put plans in place a lot sooner. I know so many people who insist on staying in their 2 storey homes, refuse any care then end up calling several ambulances a year when they have a fall etc.

but this is what the out of hours service is for.
you ring 111 and eventually a doctor comes and gives antibiotics.
done it several times for a bed-bound neighbour.
last time xmas eve, rang at 7.40pm, two call backs, doc arrived 4.50am xmas day.
maybe it is not avail in some areas ?

Drunks should not be allowed into A and E or collected by ambulances.

This is a ridiculous statement. Drunk people can have accidents that are serious and need treating. They can have heart attacks and any number of other medical emergencies, just the same as sober people can.
I drove my cousin to A&E when he was drunk because he had severe stomach pain. He was rolling around in agony. Turned out to be kidney stones but I didn’t know that obviously. I was worried it might be appendicitis and he’d need surgery. He was admitted for days anyway so obviously did need to be seen in A&E.

Re Mental Health I think CMHT needs more funding. They should be able to take over crisis calls of this nature.

Little car with a green Dr light on it and they could drive round in them, they can then immediately triage and decide on next course, that could be support voluntary admission, or start the wheels in motion for a section.

Presentation of self harm would be convey to minors under supervision.

All that happens in a MH crisis is an ambulance crew/police ends up sat with them for ages trying to convince them to go to a and e. Then they sit in A and E for hours waiting in the MH team to triage, and in most cases they are discharged with a referral to the crisis CMHT team. It's pitiful. And round and round we go.

111 have sent an ambulance the past 4 times for things I didn't think were serious (and turned out not to be)

If it really had been somewhere you couldn't have got him out of, it would have been a job for highland or lowland rescue I'd have thought, not a regular ambulance.

I think a dedicated MH bay in A&E would help too.
I was told one was going to happen in my local hospital. It never did. I have been sat in a general assessment unit with someone who was experiencing mania and psychosis.. the lady in the bed opposite had kidney stones. We all just got dumped together in the no man land that is between A&E and a ward. It was distressing for everyone.

Where I live, at night, there are just two staff members of the crisis team available. They have to take calls on the phone from people at home, and assess people in A&E. Is ridiculous.

London used to have a mental health A and E staffed by psychiatric nurses. It should never have been closed down.

I live in Sweden and there are several things that I think the NHS could adopt (if they could find the staff)

There are several different A&Es so people are steered to the right help and see specialists - in my rural area we have

• normal A&E for trauma, accidents and severe illnesses etc
• paediatric A&E - for childhood illnesses, fevers, asthma attacks minor injuries staffed by paediatric specialist drs and nurses
• MH A&E - for MH crises staffed by psychiatrists, psychologists and MH nurses and they also have a short stay ward where patients can be assessed
• Addiction services A&E dealing with drug and alcohol issues and patients needing urgent detox etc
• In the North of the county there is also "Ski A&E" open for 4 months per year to deal with standard ski accidents - sprains, uncomplicated fractures rtc and staffed by locus orthopeds, radiographers and nurses etc to avoid pressure on the larger A&E

Gp clinic within A&E - staffed by GPs to treat non-emmergencies

Patient transport that isn't an ambulance - control can despatch taxis or minibusses to people that don't need dull ambulance care