Page 4 | To think GCSEs are ridiculously hard?

donpanicme · 2023-01-12T11:17:34+00:00

DD did pretty mediocre in her mocks and has asked me to help her revise. We’ve been working through the sciences and geography and OMG it’s so hard. There’s so much to learn in each subject for a start and it’s actually pretty complicated stuff like ions, relative atomic mass, mitosis. Honestly, I don’t know how she’s going to get though it all and remember it in order to do well. How on earth do kids do it?

TeenDivided · 12/01/2023 13:56

@bellswithwhistles Children now don't really have an excuse not to get a top grade

I think you don't understand how exams are graded (on a curve), nor how much some less able kids really struggle even by working hard.

My DD1 worked very hard for her GCSEs and ended up with fab results (for her) of 5Bs and 3Cs. She only managed that because I was able to work 1-1 with her on revision and explaining things in a way she could retain the knowledge, eventually.

TeenDivided · 12/01/2023 13:58

harder exams = harder to get a high % than 'before'
harder to get top grades = proportionately fewer top grades given than 'before'

They aren't synonymous.

flimsyclam · 12/01/2023 14:02

I actually think things are easier now than when I sat my gcse. So much available to revise with. I'd have got better grades if whenever I was stuck I could just Google something then YouTube a how to video on any subject. Also some schools prepare their students for gcse syllabus a lot earlier so students will study a subject to a certain level in year 7/8 and then increase the study in year 9 and it's almost revision by year 10/11.

When I was at school all the schools I knew only covered the gcse syllabus in year 10/11

flimsyclam · 12/01/2023 14:04

The exception to this I might add is the language exams. So many native speakers of many languages live here now so that must be more difficult to achieve too grades in those as a non native speaker if exams are marked on a curve.

flimsyclam · 12/01/2023 14:04

Top grades

TeenDivided · 12/01/2023 14:07

flimsyclam · 12/01/2023 14:02

I actually think things are easier now than when I sat my gcse. So much available to revise with. I'd have got better grades if whenever I was stuck I could just Google something then YouTube a how to video on any subject. Also some schools prepare their students for gcse syllabus a lot earlier so students will study a subject to a certain level in year 7/8 and then increase the study in year 9 and it's almost revision by year 10/11.

When I was at school all the schools I knew only covered the gcse syllabus in year 10/11

Everyone can now google for help so you would have done 'better' but so can everyone else.

I really don't think they are doing GCSE syllabus from y7 except obviously maths & MFL which are cumulative, and in that context also Engl Lang to some extent. Ofsted has also come down 'against' even a 3 year KS4 as far as I am aware.

I think those that did GCSEs under the modular system underestimate how much harder it is to sit terminal exams (much ore O level like).

Badbadbunny · 12/01/2023 14:14

@TeenDivided

I really don't think they are doing GCSE syllabus from y7 except obviously maths & MFL which are cumulative, and in that context also Engl Lang to some extent. Ofsted has also come down 'against' even a 3 year KS4 as far as I am aware.

Schools can start GCSE preparation in earlier years without actually "teaching" the specific content. Like in DS's history lessons where they were being taught bias, source interpretations, cause & consequence etc from the first lesson in year 7, but not the actual exam content until the start of year 10. It was the same with sciences, they were doing GCSE "style" questions from year 7, i.e. being "coached" on how to answer science based questions, such as a 3 mark question requires 3 bullet points, how to do a sequence of events answer by bullet point to answer a "how does x happen" style of question. They were teaching exam technique in the earlier years, but based on the basics of the subject and different types of topic that weren't in the exam 5 years away. So, for the benefit of Ofsted, they were teaching topics at an appropriate level, so got their tick, but couched around exam style testing, so they weren't actually teaching GCSE content until the last two years.

flimsyclam · 12/01/2023 14:15

@TeenDivided but that's what's happening. There are higher grades than ever?

Greatly · 12/01/2023 14:37

Badbadbunny · 12/01/2023 13:22

It doesn't matter so much when comparing people who took exams around the same time. But it really DOES matter when comparing today's 20 year old against a 40 year old, both applying for the same job. Today's grade A was probably something like a grade C, 20 years ago, so the older applicant looks a lot worse on paper and may not even get through the initial screening process.

It also matters because a decade or two ago, someone with a string of As was really something special. Now it's commonplace. Employers need a way of selecting those with genuine ability. How do they do that when they get large numbers of applicants, all with A grades? It devalues the achievements of those at the top. Hence why every few years, there's either a new higher grade announced or a change in grading structure. Before long there'll be a grade 10 at GCSE or a 9 or 9+ to break up all those currently getting a 9. Likewise at A level, there'll be an A to break up those with As.

Furthermore, it makes it harder for Unis to select the most suitable applicants for their courses. It was almost unheard of for Unis to "require" an A* at A level, but now it's seen more and more as they get too many applicants with As that they need a new way of differentiating.

On a slightly different tangent, I also find it unhelpful that exams are graded according to a normal distribution curve, which means one year may need 90% to get an A*, the next year it may only need 85%, etc - so there's no comparison between years nor applicants who've done exams in different years. Yes, I know it's claimed to be due to "smooth out" variations in difficulty between years, but surely it would be better to set the questions properly so that each year is the same in terms of difficulty! It's how professional exams work - my accountancy exams had fixed pass marks year after year - the percentage required didn't change between years and strenuous efforts were put in place to ensure consistency of difficulty between years. Why can't that be done for GCSE and A Levels?

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Presumably employers interview/set entrance tests and if it matters so much they should be aware a C 20 years ago is the equivalent of an A today (not sure it is actually, but still)

GreetingsToTheNewBrunette · 12/01/2023 14:48

Yep, there were multiple exams for all my subjects too and we didn’t have coursework. Memorising quotes in Medieval English wasn’t my idea of fun 🙄

I think the main difference there’s an expectation to take at least 10 - 11 GCSEs that probably cover more than o levels did. Although I didn’t sit o levels so I don’t know 🤪

Don’t get me started on A Levels either my year was the first they got rid of AS levels so it all relied on the exams we sat in the second year (as well as coursework to be fair)

GreetingsToTheNewBrunette · 12/01/2023 14:52

Something I found too, and it may not be the case now, is that there’s so many topics to teach there isn’t enough class time to cover topics so students are expected to learn them themselves - especially Geography and History like subjects.

Badbadbunny · 12/01/2023 14:55

Greatly · 12/01/2023 14:37

Presumably employers interview/set entrance tests and if it matters so much they should be aware a C 20 years ago is the equivalent of an A today (not sure it is actually, but still)

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Yes, employers do now have a range of entry tests/assessments etc, often online, because they can't rely on exam results! But then you get applicants squealing about how hard it is to get through the application process, spending huge amounts of time doing online assessments, etc. I've seen huge numbers of such complaints on numerous online forums. If exam grades actually meant something and were consistent, employers could go back to relying on them and save the costs of running tests/assessments and save the applicants a lot of time and stress. Back when I was job hunting (40 years ago), employers just looked at your cv and covering letter and interviewed you, I never had to do any employer tests/assessments, nor did I have to do any when changing jobs for the following 20 years.

Princesspollyyy · 12/01/2023 14:55

Try gcse bite size online x

TeenDivided · 12/01/2023 15:09

flimsyclam · 12/01/2023 14:15

@TeenDivided but that's what's happening. There are higher grades than ever?

Not really.
The percentage of 4s & 7s were pegged to the results just before the reform. The other grades fit in between according to a formula.

Then Covid happened and teacher/centre assessed grades occurred, and the % went up. The 2022 grades were reduced partly towards the old levels and the 2023 are meant to be going back to pre-covid levels.

TeenDivided · 12/01/2023 15:14

@Badbadbunny I don't think you can reasonably complain that History teachers are teaching pupils the skills to be a good historian in KS3 just because they then need those skills for GCSE! Ditto learning how to use science knowledge gained to answer science exam questions.

C1N1C · 12/01/2023 15:23

Feel free to pm me if you need help... I'm sure there are many others in the same field too, but I'm happy to answer any questions if things are unclear. I did 'biology' to PhD level, I use this stuff every day :).

Sonrien · 12/01/2023 15:39

I’d recommend printing off the syllabus and using that a long side a revision guide. It makes it really clear what you need to know.

Cruisebabe1 · 12/01/2023 16:14

Rowthe · 12/01/2023 12:15

Coursework will increasingly be phased out.

There are so many online options to cheat now. And difficult to catch plagiarism.

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This

Beneficialchampion2 · 12/01/2023 16:45

The stuff you've mentioned is hardly quantum physics, GCSE's are fairly basic.

A-levels are a massive step up in terms of difficulty and effort required also.

PauliString · 12/01/2023 20:52

Beneficialchampion2 · 12/01/2023 16:45

The stuff you've mentioned is hardly quantum physics, GCSE's are fairly basic.

A-levels are a massive step up in terms of difficulty and effort required also.

Oh, I don’t know, a good grasp of quantum physics would certainly help you explain ionization and relative atomic mass.

talkingmorenonsense · 12/01/2023 20:55

Sorry, I don’t think they are hard. My three sailed through them. A levels are much harder.

hennaoj · 12/01/2023 22:36

Find a method of learning that suits your daughter. I found the Geography teacher getting us to watch loads of videos on glacial features, limestone formation etc really great. I'm a visual learner so ended up with an A in A level geography. Before that I thought I was rubbish at it. Past papers helped a lot too, much better than trying to learn by just reading.

theluckiest · 12/01/2023 22:51

I'm baffled by the English and having closed book exams.

DS has worked his socks off and fortunately has a good memory.

Unfortunately for a lot of his mates, memorising stacks of quotes from Macbeth, Inspector Calls, at least 16 different poems devalues the actual critical analysis of a text when it just becomes a memory exercise..

I definitely remember taking texts into exams in the 90s.

Just seems designed to focus on and assess the wrong bits of a kid's knowledge

bobbytorq · 12/01/2023 22:57

MilkyYay · 12/01/2023 12:22

Could you be given 25 hours of content a week for two years and then remember 65% of it at the end? That’s 1950hours over the two years of teaching time, so 1267hours worth of facts?

Well yes, given that i got A* in most of mine and As in A level followed by a degree and a 3 year post grad professional qualification. To be fair i also did my homework and revision but at gcse i definitely didn't go mad on either of those, i remember gcse revision featuring a lot of breaks!!

I agree. My GCSEs were a piece of piss and I did no work and got straight A's. My kids have got straight 9s with little effort too. A-levels were sighificantly harder but still managed A's and B's and kids got A*s.

JudgeRudy · 12/01/2023 23:59

I find it worrying that you've only just discovered some of the things she's learning. What happened during Covid when presumably she was working from home? I guess though its never too late to get involved.
All the things you've mentioned were part of GCSE years ago and probably O levels too.
She'll have started learning the basics of these things a good 4 years ago. Plus the exams are graded. She won't be expected to remember and understand everything. That's for the top grades. Don't encourage her to think the exams are impossibility hard. Praise her for how much she has learnt.