To think GCSEs are ridiculously hard?

[donpanicme]

DD did pretty mediocre in her mocks and has asked me to help her revise. We’ve been working through the sciences and geography and OMG it’s so hard. There’s so much to learn in each subject for a start and it’s actually pretty complicated stuff like ions, relative atomic mass, mitosis. Honestly, I don’t know how she’s going to get though it all and remember it in order to do well. How on earth do kids do it?

Um, yes. That's how I got top grade in all my exams. It is also how a lot of people are able to so their jobs.

YANBU

When i see my DC16's homework I really struggle to believe I achieved As and Bs 30 odd years ago in my GCSEs. It is like an alien language.

To be honest I was stumped at Y5 maths during the pandemic. Had to remind myself I do have a maths GCSE.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/infographic-gcse-results-2022/infographics-for-gcse-results-2022-accessible

the students I teach have to remember all of the content for that along with around 9 other subjects ready to regurgitate it all onto an exam paper at the end of a two year course. Some information they may not have gone over for two years.

And yet 1 in 3 kids in london is getting grade 7 & above, nearly 3/4 are getting a 4 and above.

If it gets any easier they'll all pass and it won't really be much of an achievement.

I found maths harder than my GCSE 30 years ago- DS definitely covered things in GCSE which I did for A level.

I found it to be the other way round. For example, I did calculus at 0 level whereas now it only seems to be covered at A.

@Rowthe the coursework could be worked on in school during lessons.
@MilkyYay people remember facts about things they are interested in. The problem with GCSE's it's too many subjects and teens aren't actually interested in half of them. It's all about getting the grade rather than learning something simply because it's interesting or important to know.

Could you be given 25 hours of content a week for two years and then remember 65% of it at the end? That’s 1950hours over the two years of teaching time, so 1267hours worth of facts?

Well yes, given that i got A* in most of mine and As in A level followed by a degree and a 3 year post grad professional qualification. To be fair i also did my homework and revision but at gcse i definitely didn't go mad on either of those, i remember gcse revision featuring a lot of breaks!!

...with log tables to look up, Oakbeam?

I did O levels. DD1 did unreformed GCSEs in '15 but just near the end when modular exams and most coursework were gone, but there were still significant controlled assessments. DD2 did (or didn't) reformed GCSEs in '21.

My view:

1. You shouldn't compare O levels, which only the top 20-40% sat with GCSEs which are meant to be accessible for all.
2. The reformed GCSEs have more content to learn than the unreformed ones, plus they have more exams - DD1 sat 13 exams, DD2 was due to sit 20, and most actually have more than that.
3. In my opinion, the reformed science is as hard as the old O level, especially as most pupils do all 3 sciences either as the dual award or individually.
4. Mainly they aren't 'easier' they are different. History requires very different skills than way back.
5. GCSEs are very challenging for less able kids and imo aren't really fit for purpose as a block any more for them. Especially the amount of exams turns everything into an endurance test more than anything else.
6. Schools should somehow be encouraged and funded to provide more BTECs or something for more pupils as in the past.

YANBU OP, I think what many are missing when they compare it to O levels is that not everyone was expected to complete O Levels, there were also CSEs. Everyone does GCSEs so it should be accessible to everyone.

Also the number of subjects, many teenagers at DDs school did 10 or 11 GCSEs.

I think people just look for an excuse to bash the younger generation, you see it a lot on MN unfortunately

The problem with GCSE's it's too many subjects and teens aren't actually interested in half of them. It's all about getting the grade rather than learning something simply because it's interesting or important to know.

Well no, its about them learning this material so that we have an educated workforce to supply the labour we need. We aren't making kids do GCSEs for the fun of it!

I think the amount they have to remember for each subject is far too much. And it seems they are taught something once and then expected to remember it.

Well the problem in Scotland - as highlighted in the paper today - is that there are so many people getting A’s at higher that there is no means of differentiating between outstanding, good and mediocre students, and the kids from a deprived background are the ONLY ones getting into some courses as they are given a ‘leg up’ with widening access positive discrimination.

Make the exams as hard as possible seems the best option. Take the outstanding kids from private schools, the very good kids from average state schools and the good from deprived backgrounds. Making the exams easier so everyone gets an A is a disaster for everyone.

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/students-from-less-deprived-background-have-door-closed-to-university-due-to-snp-funding-approach-3983059

I’m sure DDs weak grasp of French which means she can more or less say she has a sister and went to the cinema on the weekend is of great value to her work

I don't think they're too hard, no. A lot of it I don't know as I've forgotten, but considering kids are at school all day, they get plenty of time to learn this stuff.

I certainly recognise the science topics my stepkids are doing. There's been a few things in maths I have no recollection of, but that doesn't surprise me.

History is broadly similar.

Geography has moved with the times a bit.

English - they're still doing An Inspector Calls, which I did 20 years ago.

I agree that learning how to structure a proper essay answer is the hardest bit to learn.

There's so many online resources now. I didn't have a computer when I was doing GCSEs, so all I had was school books and revision guides.

@MilkyYay it's important to learn things. But not everything needs to have an exam and a grade.
Every (non Sen)16 year old that leaves school should be able to read, write and do maths.
That's the important stuff. Everyone should have a GCSE in those.
Other subjects are very important too. History is important so people can learn from the past. That is important to know in life - just look at the disaster that is Brexit. Many people had little clue of the history behind the EU - what it actually meant etc.
But what I meant is not everything should be about only learning it to get a GCSE out of it. Sometimes just learning something because it's important or interesting is all that's needed.
It's too just many different subjects that teens are meant to do.
Just too much.

They are really hard OP, I agree.

I haven't read the thread but as this is mumsnet you'll no doubt get plenty of posts telling you how actually they are much easier 🤷🏼‍♀️

Ha ha same with my dd. The best we can say about French gcse is that she can understand some of what Timothee Chalamet says when he speaks French

Current GCSEs aren't unreasonable hard, but they are more difficult than the old GCSEs.The old GCSE content was much easier than old O Level content.

O levels were aimed at people who would go on to A level and university. Everyone else took CSEs, which equated to the lowest grade O level if you scored a grade 1.

Anecdata, but I sent my 1972 Latin O level paper in to the teacher at DC's selective independent (at her request) and the feedback was that it would stretch today's AS level candidates. But of course, not many schools routinely teach Latin now.

The Maths content now has elements that were not in GCSE or were at a higher level than when I was teaching 17 years ago. It seems to have happened as a response to the dumbing down of Maths during the 70s and 80s, when teachers were not allowed to teach tables, addition etc of fractions. I once heard a Head berating a supply teacher who was secondary trained for teaching tables and that was his wife!

I have Highers from the 80s and my DC are doing GCSEs now so I can't compare like with like. But I'm a scientist and was talking to DD1 (y10) about my work and mentioned plasmids, and then started to explain what that is and she rolled her eyes and said 'I know what a plasmid is Mum'. Obviously it's the difference in the importance of molecular biology in 30 years but I distinctly remember learning about plasmids as an undergraduate and being pissed off that even bacteria were having sex when I wasn't! Generally I've been impressed with how they are teaching the subjects, most of the complaints in the press don't reflect our experiences. But the DDs are top set in a good school and are very engaged so tell us in detail about what they are doing which helps.

How many o levels did you take though? I did GCSEs in 2015 and took 12 - for triple science that was 9 papers for just 3 GCSEs!

@GreetingsToTheNewBrunette Eight O levels was pretty normal. English Lit, English Lang, Maths and a modern language were compulsory; then a choice of academic subjects for the rest... in my case, Latin, German, History and Biology.

Several involved more than one paper. French had two written papers and a 15 minute oral; Latin prose, poetry and a grammar paper each of which involved translation from/to Latin.

There were five or six papers for A level English.

@GreetingsToTheNewBrunette that's part of the problem - it's several exam papers per subject.
My friends son sat 27 exam papers.
I took 6 GCSEs back in the mists of time.
2 were 100% coursework, 2 were a mix of coursework, end of module tests (which counted towards the final grade) and a final exam, 2 were fully exam only.
I vaguely remember there being 2 maths papers and 2 RS papers. 1 science paper - because we had done tests at the end of each module. There may have been a second paper. I can't remember.
French was split into reading, writing, listening, speaking but I remember the final exams as being short. We possibly did them at the same time so pretty much 1 exam.
So probably in total I sat about 5 or 6 exam papers.
I technically should have been taking 7 GCSEs. I dropped out of art because I struggled with it. That was 100% coursework though so still wouldn't have been any extra exams.
I can't imagine having to do 27 exam papers.

I thought exams in the past were longer than they are now?