To think you should downsize your council house if it’s just you?

[OuchOuchOuchh]

Oh my goodness I have created war at work and everyone is gunning for me.

My auntie has a huge 4 bedroom council house she has lived there since the 90s with her one son. That has now moved out.

All i said was I think it’s unfair that she’s living in such a big family home perfect for a family to bring their kids up in. Large garden backs on to the woods plenty of visits from deers and fox’s it’s beautiful! Anyway all I said is that if you haven’t purchased the property in a certain amount of time you should have to downsize if it’s just you living there.

Theres families overcrowded and can’t get anywhere then you have my auntie paying £100 a week in rent for a massive house for just herself.

please tell me if I am being an asshole! I appreciate it’s her family home but it just doesn’t seem fair to me.

*I agree with your logic.

But emotionally, and perhaps morally, I find it quite a difficult argument.*

I agree with this comment. I voted YANBU because you’re not. But the government should really have things in place so when people no longer need as many rooms as they have, they’re able to rent a one bedroom council flat.

I’m in London so not sure where you’re located but if I had a 4 bed council house/flat (or any bed for that matter) and I left. The council wouldn’t house me and would tell me to private rent or rent a room. Why would anyone in their right mind go from paying £400 a month to then pay an extortionate amount to rent privately or live in a house share? I certainly wouldn’t do some shit like that.

It’s a dog eat dog world. And I say that as someone who has 2 under 2 and private rents a one bed🫣

My friend had to do exactly that, but because she couldn't afford to pay the "bedroom tax" on the spare bedroom once DS1 had moved away to uni.

She did a mutual exchange, but failed to realise that the estate she moved to was pretty rough, and her younger son, who has significant MH problems, has got much worse since the move and now can't leave the house without having a panic attack. The council won't approve a transfer because she's adequately housed, and no-one wants to exchange with her because the estate is so rough.

She's in utter despair.

We had someone fairly high profile living near us. He lived in the council house he had "inherited" off his mother, which would have worth at least £600k on the open market (London, zone 4, 4 bed, near to tube station) He was earning around £160k a year, but refused to give up the council house.

Council, and all social, housing should be "what you need, when you need". Not "I've lived here for x many years, I don't want to move".

It's absolutely absurd that a 3 bed house is sitting half used. She shouldn't have been able to inherit the tenancy in the first place. If people want to underoccupy they need to buy or private rent. We're in a housing crisis and can't make allowances for sentimentality.

You're right, @Kabalagala , and it only needs one of you to be over pension age for the exemption to apply.

Our local council run CH at a profit. It's ringfenced for investment in CHing but it's a profit.

That income and expense account does not take into account the cost to finance and build the housing, the value of the land those houses are on.

If council house rent was at market value, the revenue could be used to build more homes,the increased supply would keep market rents from rising.

Do not kid yourself that social rent covers the true, total cost of that housing being provided by the state. It does not.

Exactly.

We used to live in a tower block, in a 1 bed before we bought on the open market. We were saving furiously to buy, so did little to our flat, but our neighbour had recarpetted it, put a shower in, kitchen units etc. It was lovely. Her view was ''I'm not going to be able to buy so I may as well make this place as nice as possible.'' Good on her.

I have said yanbu but it must be really hard if you have lived in a place for a long time to then have to move once it's just you there. All those memories. I was quite sad when we left our previous place (a shitty rental) as we had been there 22 years and got married and had our kids in that time.
We have a few council houses near us that have recently been emptied due to just one person living there. This was before Christmas and they are still empty and nothing has been done to them.

My view would be that until there are suitable smaller properties in social housing they stay put. If there were such properties then larger properties could be available for families; smaller ones available for older/single people where they could manage fuel etc better

I don't agree that people should be turfed out without an appropriate alternative.

I agree! DH grandfather occupied a 3 bed council house near outstanding schools well into his 90s when he eventually pased away. He was widowed at 60 and all their kids moved out when they were in their 40s. For a good almost 50 years he rattled around in a 3 bed house whilst children were stuck in one bed flats down the road not in catchment for good schools. He should have been moved IMO

This is the reality in most areas though. Even more so if Aunty isn't old enough for housing for those over 60 etc. There may well be nowhere suitable for her to go.

I haven't read the whole thread, but my grandparents lived in a large council house until they died. We tried for 11 years to move them somewhere smaller, a bungalow on one level but were always outbid. They were high priority too as neither could get up the stairs to bath/shower.
If there are no properties for your aunt to move to, she shouldn't give up her home.

You read so frequently about families overcrowded in flats. I really find it hard to believe that there aren't enough flats for people to downsize to. Perhaps they aren't sitting empty, but it surely wouldn't be too hard to move people around and reassign housing based on actual need.

Really difficult one! By that logic though shouldn't old people in their own homes downsize too - we have a housing shortage across the board. I think ultimately i think it should be people's choice to stay in their homes, but could offer some incentives for everyone to downsize if they don't need the space e.g. a home locally, help moving, free decorating? ☺️

There isn't anything to stop an older person in a 4 bedroomed council property, taking in a lodger or two

Ive known this happen in my district, as the older person didn't want to move, the rent was set against their housing benefit but it meant they stayed in their home

It does cover the cost , legally it has to. But the rents do not have to make a profit as private rents do. Private rents help landlords buy an expensive asset plus cover the costs of the rental. So the equivalent would be if council house tenants had to cover the cost of the house rental, plus the cost of building a new council house. It would leave many people homeless.

And I would always advise someone to downsize into a 2 bedroom place, not 1 bedroom. That gives the option as you get older of someone staying over to look after you, or storage space for disability aids which can take up a lot of space.

By that logic though shouldn't old people in their own homes downsize too

They should, and lots do. There's already a natural incentive to do so when you own your own home as it releases capital which you keep, both my sets of grandparents down graded from owned family homes to 2 bedroom flats in late 70s. There is less an incentive to if you rent a council home because you simply live in a smaller home but have nothing to show for it, so people tend not to.

The council wanted to install new double glazing in MIL's house a couple of years ago. The existing double glazing was only about 12 years old, and in excellent nick, so she declined, as she didn't want the upheaval and mess.

I wonder if she's regretting it, now that energy costs have gone through the roof, as the new ones would undoubtedly have provided better insulation.

Mind you, they refused to have gas connected so they could have gas CH put in, because "It's not safe". 🙄

You read so frequently about families overcrowded in flats. I really find it hard to believe that there aren't enough flats for people to downsize to

there are an abundance of over 65 flats for one person in the district I live in, but they are only for over 65s. Some of these flats are in sheltered accommodation, others not. Ive known one over 65 year old move every single year to a different flat as she was never happy with something, her perogative.

Of course yanbu
I live on a street of LA housing

the old people living alone die
then a large family moves in

but as elderly LA dwelling people don’t tend to frequent MN

your preaching to the converted im afraid

Just let me as you this: what is the cause of the housing crisis?

I'd say RTB and failure to invest in building new social housing @PlumbleCrumble , but a former client of mine is adamant it's refugees.

It does cover the cost , legally it has to.

It does not cover the lost revenue that would be generated from rentinh the properties at market value, so it does not cover the true fully loaded cost to the state of providing the homes at low rents.

Owning an asset and providing it to someone for less than you can get on the open market is a subsidy.

A bit like if (say) the government owned a fleet of taxis and provided them for £100 a month to some taxi drivers, even though the government has had to spend £500k buying the taxis, or has had to borrow 500k to buy them. Is that fair to all the other taxi drivers who have to pay £300 to lease a taxi privately because thats what it costs?

The taxi drivers who get the taxis cheap are gettimg a subsidised asset, and the fact that their cheap lease of £100 covers the annual repairs and maintenance doesmt change that.

I agree in principle. But that's someone's home , they have support in their community built friendships and lives there.

My Gran lived in a three bedroom council house. After her husband died she was approached by the Council and asked if she would consider moving somewhere smaller so that a family could have the house. Gran refused as she had lived in the house since she got married, all her DC were born there. The council made regular requests and eventually they found her a nice sheltered housing place once Gran was no longer able to get up the stairs and had to admit defeat. This was in the early 2000's. I guess they don't monitor this anymore.