Page 31 | To think you should downsize your council house if it’s just you?

OuchOuchOuchh · 2023-01-12T09:58:53+00:00

Oh my goodness I have created war at work and everyone is gunning for me. My auntie has a huge 4 bedroom council house she has lived there since the 90s with her one son. That has now moved out. All i said was I think it’s unfair that she’s living in such a big family home perfect for a family to bring their kids up in. Large garden backs on to the woods plenty of visits from deers and fox’s it’s beautiful! Anyway all I said is that if you haven’t purchased the property in a certain amount of time you should have to downsize if it’s just you living there. Theres families overcrowded and can’t get anywhere then you have my auntie paying £100 a week in rent for a massive house for just herself. please tell me if I am being an asshole! I appreciate it’s her family home but it just doesn’t seem fair to me.

LakieLady · 12/01/2023 19:04

It is subsidised because it is below market rate for rent. The stats could charge more to rent it out but doesn't. The difference between the real world price and the council discount rent price is the subsidy. You are subsidised.

Building council housing pays for itself in the medium to long term, and surplus is used to build more council housing, which then also pays for itself.

My MIL has probably paid for at least a couple of houses, after paying rent for more than 50 years.

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 12/01/2023 19:06

PeachyPoppedBack · 12/01/2023 19:03

Would also point out that council houses are often leased in a much more basic state than private homes. It’s normal for them to be bare floorboards etc, we needed £1k to get ours to a liveable state for our sons and a few years in still have some rooms in need of a carpet. Not just a ratty old carpet, no carpet. Bizarre huge windows that we couldn’t find second hand or standard curtains for, bare floorboards with gaps between upstairs- how would a pensioner on a state pension cover that?

We spent over 5k on our HA by the time we moved

Uninterestedfamily · 12/01/2023 19:06

It's not always that easy. I had a 3 bed council place and asked about any schemes to downsize to a 1 bed. The woman had a go at me for expecting to queue jump for one of the few 1 beds that come available, and told me to join the waiting list to change accommodation. Which was 11 years long for a 1 bed.

The OP assumes smaller accommodation is available. It's just as in demand and 1 beds in particular - you won't get one unless you are vulnerable and high priority.

Goldd · 12/01/2023 19:07

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 12/01/2023 18:54

But we could have afforded to rent privately. But why would I give up a secure tenancy? Next door was private and they only paid 10 quid more a month than us. My friend who had a way nicer house and an extra room rented privately and only paid around 60 quid more than us a month. You can get housing benefit regardless of if you're renting private or HA.

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But we could have afforded to rent privately. But why would I give up a secure tenancy?

In order to free up the council property for someone who needs it more than you? Such as families in cramped conditions, which there are so many considering the dearth of family-size houses, families on multiple benefits/disability benefit who struggle to find a LL who will privately rent to them, etc.

I think that’s literally the point of the entire thread?

MissWings · 12/01/2023 19:08

@Eyerollcentral

Yes that does make sense! Her husband died incredibly young so she was alone for a long time so no private pension from him. She did work as a carer but did spend a lot of time in and out of an inpatient unit so work was as and when but I presume she didn’t have an occupational pension.

W0tnow · 12/01/2023 19:08

Of course you should. I imagine a larger family is squished into smaller accommodation. A simple swap makes sense.

PaperMonster · 12/01/2023 19:09

I live in HA housing in a very rural area. There’s rarely any houses available here as everyone’s long term but there are no one beds, a couple of two beds and the rest are three beds. Not that any of them are big at all! But the three single people in the three beds have nowhere to move to, assuming they’d want to.

Remmy123 · 12/01/2023 19:09

My 70 year old mother lives in a x4 bed house as we all moved out. She wants to downsize but the rent wouid be MORE in a 1-2 bed council flat as she has a tenancy whereby they can't increase it any more (or something) so she is staying put as she can't afford more rent (not on benefits)

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 12/01/2023 19:09

Goldd · 12/01/2023 19:07

But we could have afforded to rent privately. But why would I give up a secure tenancy?

In order to free up the council property for someone who needs it more than you? Such as families in cramped conditions, which there are so many considering the dearth of family-size houses, families on multiple benefits/disability benefit who struggle to find a LL who will privately rent to them, etc.

I think that’s literally the point of the entire thread?

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I am disabled. On full rate PIP. Granted I work and have always worked but that could change in an instant. I wasn't going to give my HA up because I was slightly more better off than I was when I moved in. When we were substantially better off, as in had enough money for a deposit yes. But if that didn't happen I would have needed a lot of pay rises to have got me to move.

Eyerollcentral · 12/01/2023 19:10

Goldd · 12/01/2023 19:00

People are entitled to enjoy the property they signed an agreement to live in for as long as that agreement lasts.

So a couple in their sixties, both on great salaries/successful business/final salary pension etc, both recent inheritances. Should get to stay in their three or four bed council house for another 30+ years, just because that’s the agreement they signed?

Is it currently allowed? Yes
Is it selfish? Also yes
It is the definition of “I’m alright, Jack”

Some people could literally change to private renting and rent the same type of property down the street. Or dig into their retirement fund and buy the same property over the road. Some people could afford that. Or at minimum, swap for a smaller council property. But they don’t want the inconvenience or to deplete their savings. Of course it is selfish!

Also as another user pointed out, almost all home owners sell up and downsize when they retire in order to afford to live in retirement. I don’t know anyone who hasn’t. So this “why shouldn’t they get to live in their family home with their nice garden and neighbours for life” stuff is so, so tone deaf.

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Sorry what other legal agreement affecting any other strata in society does ‘selfishness’ or otherwise come in to consideration? None. And it’s not a consideration here, it’s a ridiculous point to try and make.
I think it’s really selfish for a developer to buy up every cheap house in an area, bodge job a cheap kitchen and bathroom in and charge exorbitant rent, make huge profits, but it is legal.
If you signed an agreement to let you live in a place for the duration of your life and based your plans upon the security of that tenancy, would you think it was reasonable for someone to come along 30 years later and say sorry you’ve to do one now because we sold all the other houses at a loss, whoopsie! Of course you wouldn’t.
Finally many actual council tenants have said they would love to downsize to a smaller council property but it’s either more expensive than their current property and therefore unaffordable or there are simple none available. Still want to call them selfish? Are they ‘alright jack’?

Eyerollcentral · 12/01/2023 19:13

MissWings · 12/01/2023 19:08

@Eyerollcentral

Yes that does make sense! Her husband died incredibly young so she was alone for a long time so no private pension from him. She did work as a carer but did spend a lot of time in and out of an inpatient unit so work was as and when but I presume she didn’t have an occupational pension.

Thank god at least she was able to avail of housing benefit to stay in her own home after working through a hard life in hard jobs.

ArcheryAnnie · 12/01/2023 19:13

W0tnow · 12/01/2023 19:08

Of course you should. I imagine a larger family is squished into smaller accommodation. A simple swap makes sense.

Just a few posts above you is one by @Uninterestedfamily , where she details (as many other have done in this thread) the impossibility of getting a "simple swap". There's not that many 1-beds available to swap to.

PeachyPoppedBack · 12/01/2023 19:13

Uninterestedfamily · 12/01/2023 19:06

It's not always that easy. I had a 3 bed council place and asked about any schemes to downsize to a 1 bed. The woman had a go at me for expecting to queue jump for one of the few 1 beds that come available, and told me to join the waiting list to change accommodation. Which was 11 years long for a 1 bed.

The OP assumes smaller accommodation is available. It's just as in demand and 1 beds in particular - you won't get one unless you are vulnerable and high priority.

That sounds right- our four bed had no other applicants because people are scared by bedroom tax and it’s a bit remote out here. Even with 3x disabilities points a three bed would have been another long wait on top of the six we’d already been on the list.

Eyerollcentral · 12/01/2023 19:16

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 12/01/2023 19:09

I am disabled. On full rate PIP. Granted I work and have always worked but that could change in an instant. I wasn't going to give my HA up because I was slightly more better off than I was when I moved in. When we were substantially better off, as in had enough money for a deposit yes. But if that didn't happen I would have needed a lot of pay rises to have got me to move.

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No one here needs to justify their living situation, especially not to people who quite simply have not got a clue about the reality of the situation.

MissWings · 12/01/2023 19:17

@Eyerollcentral

Thanks. Yes hard worker (when she was well). She spent time in and out of psychiatric units due to severe childhood sexual abuse. I am glad she stayed in her home too.

W0tnow · 12/01/2023 19:18

ArcheryAnnie · 12/01/2023 19:13

Just a few posts above you is one by @Uninterestedfamily , where she details (as many other have done in this thread) the impossibility of getting a "simple swap". There's not that many 1-beds available to swap to.

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So? Swap to a smaller one. Doesn’t have to be a one bedder. Families are bouncing from hotel room to hotel room.

redressgirl · 12/01/2023 19:18

i’m in a house bigger then i need (now) but the issue is although there’s bedroom tax it costs a lot to move rent in advance moving costs and carpets and decorating in a new property it’s not easy to just move i would probably need around the 4 k mark and that’s something i don’t have

Throwncrumbs · 12/01/2023 19:21

IsItThough · 12/01/2023 18:02

"This thread amazes me. Big council house just one person living there is classed as selfish, should give it back to the council as it’s not yours, you are just renting it, the on other threads if you privately rent landlords are scum and it’s your home and they shouldn’t evict you… unbelievable double standards!"

Oh give over, you know these are different things entirely.

Council should rehouse their tenants appropriately, in a neighbourhood of their choosing, within a reasonable period. Private landlords evict for profit, primarily, not public good.

No, it’s the same… if you rent any property it is never ‘yours’ if you want a property that is yours you buy it. Who ever you rent it from owns the property , even the council!

Goldd · 12/01/2023 19:21

@Eyerollcentral
Finally many actual council tenants have said they would love to downsize to a smaller council property but it’s either more expensive than their current property and therefore unaffordable or there are simple none available. Still want to call them selfish? Are they ‘alright jack’?

No…. Obviously not. They are not selfish. Only the people who have the means to swap or rent somewhere. But don’t want to.

@AllThingsServeTheBeam
When we were substantially better off, as in had enough money for a deposit yes. But if that didn't happen

Okay fine, I am literally just talking about people who can well afford to vacate their council property.

I really feel like spelling out the same things over and over again. For people who can EASY AFFORD to vacate their council property, and are WELL off, but who choose to stay in their three or four bed property because “why shouldn’t I?”. Yes that is selfish. They really don’t see how it directly impacts the poor families waiting in b&bs or cramped flats. It’s a cognitive dissonance.

There’s been a lot of whataboutery on this thread. But what about when there’s no small flats to swap to, but what about my old widowed nan, but what about I can’t afford to move, etc. Obviously not talking
about those cases.

There was a previous poster who had a council tenancy and chose to give it up and spend her & DH redundancy package on a deposit to buy a place. Rather than staying put in HA and treating themselves with the money. That’s a good example of not being selfish. Able to move on, so do so.

Eyerollcentral · 12/01/2023 19:21

W0tnow · 12/01/2023 19:18

So? Swap to a smaller one. Doesn’t have to be a one bedder. Families are bouncing from hotel room to hotel room.

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Is there something wrong with your reading comprehension or have you not read the thread? There is a shortage of properties for people to downsize to. I don’t think the council has many bedsit’s, mainly because they are too small to meet the criteria for human habitation. Do you want them to put a curtain up and divide bedrooms in to two? In fact bring back tenements 🫠🫠🫠🫠

Nat6999 · 12/01/2023 19:22

Councils should be building more houses, I live next to a plot of land owned by the council that has been empty for over 20 years, it has been up for sale for years & nobody wants to buy it even though it has outline planning for 89 homes, why aren't they building on it? The amount it is for sale for is peanuts compared to what they would get in rents.

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 12/01/2023 19:24

Goldd · 12/01/2023 19:21

@Eyerollcentral
Finally many actual council tenants have said they would love to downsize to a smaller council property but it’s either more expensive than their current property and therefore unaffordable or there are simple none available. Still want to call them selfish? Are they ‘alright jack’?

No…. Obviously not. They are not selfish. Only the people who have the means to swap or rent somewhere. But don’t want to.

@AllThingsServeTheBeam
When we were substantially better off, as in had enough money for a deposit yes. But if that didn't happen

Okay fine, I am literally just talking about people who can well afford to vacate their council property.

I really feel like spelling out the same things over and over again. For people who can EASY AFFORD to vacate their council property, and are WELL off, but who choose to stay in their three or four bed property because “why shouldn’t I?”. Yes that is selfish. They really don’t see how it directly impacts the poor families waiting in b&bs or cramped flats. It’s a cognitive dissonance.

There’s been a lot of whataboutery on this thread. But what about when there’s no small flats to swap to, but what about my old widowed nan, but what about I can’t afford to move, etc. Obviously not talking
about those cases.

There was a previous poster who had a council tenancy and chose to give it up and spend her & DH redundancy package on a deposit to buy a place. Rather than staying put in HA and treating themselves with the money. That’s a good example of not being selfish. Able to move on, so do so.

It was me who used their redundancy. If that hadn't happened I would have still been in my HA. I had no intention of leaving otherwise

LakieLady · 12/01/2023 19:24

Choconut · 12/01/2023 16:48

No one else gets to keep their rented property for life so why should people in council houses? The law that allows it should be changed as it's ridiculous.

They used to thoug. Secure tenancies used to be commonplace, my parents had one.

It was cold, damp, and had not bathroom, just an outside toilet, which was why they got a council flat when I was 10. And they got it despite my DF being on a reasonable income.

When the company he worked for relocated to a new town 100 or so miles away, they got a lovely council house, in a road that was a mix of council and privately owned. They didn't exercise their right to buy because they didn't agree with it, and when they died the council put in new tenants who had been homeless.

If it wasn't for RTB, all council houses would end up going to new tenants eventually.

ArcheryAnnie · 12/01/2023 19:24

W0tnow · 12/01/2023 19:18

So? Swap to a smaller one. Doesn’t have to be a one bedder. Families are bouncing from hotel room to hotel room.

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Other people in this thread have noted that their councils, or their HA, will not allow swaps to properties which aren't the right size. Some do, some don't. But it's a bit off to be castigated people for not moving when it isn't "simple" at all. It's difficult, expensive, and can take a long time to find somewhere.

Coffeecreme · 12/01/2023 19:26

but you can;t force people to downsize
whether they rent from the council or own their own homes.