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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Need advice after split, Exh still thinks I'm here to facilitate his work, etc.

30 replies

Nchangeagain · 11/01/2023 16:18

Hi,
Posting on behalf of a friend. She split from her dh early last year. No one else involved, she just fell out of love and had tried to talk to him about it for a few years, to no avail. They'd been together 15 years, married for 12. Both mid 30s.

They have a 7 year old child and a 15yo and previously she worked around his hours so that they didn't need to pay for childcare. He insisted on 50/50 as he didn't want to pay maintenance, but that never materialised and so maintenance is based on 3 nights a week.

The problem is he often only has their youngest dd for 1 day a week and will go upto 12 days between seeing her.
Last month he only had her for 6 days, only 1 of which was a weekend day.
This month he's suggesting 2 days the 1st weekend then no days the 2nd week, then another 2 week days the 3rd week and then 4 days over the last weekend. The month after that it's different again, but 8 days is a lot compared to what he has been doing, and every month it's a fight to get dates from him.

My friend is really stressed as money is really tight and she needs to go back to work, but she'd also like 2 weekends a month free, whereas at the moment he is dictating all the days on a month to month basis and often not telling her until that week so she can't plan anything and definitely wouldn't be able to work.

He works shifts, but his firm has always been flexible with family life, and he was usually always able to change shifts if need be. They actually put him on shifts which meant my friend could work 2 nights a week.

He now says his firm have changed this and he has no choice what he does. I suspect this not to be true as he is hurt and trying to punish her for leaving as he always brings this up as being the consequence of leaving him. He also won't send her a copy of his rota so she can let her work know when she's available ...he says he doesn't know in advance, which is BS.

She ideally would like him to have their dd 1 or 2 nights a week on the weeks he doesn't have a weekend, and 2 weekends a month from Fri after school to Mon school drop off (eg, 2 and 4th or 1st and 3rd). This would mean he has his dd 12 days a month.

She'd like regular days as her youngest dd has high functioning autism and routine is important so atm, she's really struggling with never knowing who's picking her up from school, or where she's going to be sleeping or having dinner. Also, it helps her to plan her life and work, as it would anyone.

Before the split he was a good dad, but atm, he can't see past his hurt and is lashing out, but it's obviously affecting the dd too, but he can't see it, and denies it. He seems to think she still has to fit in with his work schedule and has suggested she get a job to fit in with him and school, which is impossible, especially as he's saying his shifts change every month.

As a side note, he's never upped maintenance to cover the days she actually has their dds, and gets angry and shouts and swears when she tries to discuss it.
She doesn't feel its fair to get the oldest child to babysit and I've not really included them in this post as they aren't really an issue (childcare wise), although he still doesn't pay enough to cover the days they stay with mum (think 2 days when she is there 5 days).

She says to him they should have set days each month and sort out their own childcare on those days, whether it be family, clubs, paid care, etc. He says he gives her maintenance so she should have the dc when he dictates as he's paying her to have them and he needs to work.
She says, they both need to work, and now they're no longer a couple, it isn't for her to fit her life around his shifts, and that the maintenance is to pay towards their food, etc, and not him paying her to 'babysit' them whilst he works.

I've suggested mediation or going to court to make everything official and legal, but she's frightened they'd side with him so she'd be no better off, and I don't know enough about this to advise her so I was hoping for advice from you lovely people on here. She's become so anxious and stressed over this that she's really struggling and can't see a way out.

I know she can't force him to see the dc, but is it likely a judge would say she has to work around him?
My advice to her was that she had just as much right to having a job and a life as he does and her job is just as important as his, so it's up to each of them to facilitate their own job, and sort childcare themselves on their time with the dc. Maybe further down the line they can swap and help each other out if it suits them both, but 1st they need an arrangement in place that allows both of them to move on and have a life/work.

Please can anyone help? 🙏🏻

OP posts:
LookItsMeAgain · 11/01/2023 16:34

Honestly, this is never going to work because it is entirely at his beck and call. Has she ever said "No, that doesn't work for me. I already have plans and you'll have to change yours" if he gets to dictate when he has the children?

My advice to your friend is to get in touch with a solicitor and get things on a legal footing. Either he takes the children for 50% of the time or he pays maintenance. At least that way, your friend will know where she stands every day and every weekend and childcare can be paid for, properly.

PurpleNebula84 · 11/01/2023 16:38

I doubt mediation would say she has to work around him - it will be seen as the child needing regular and consistent contact with her dad and they would likely push for a regular day or time for this. It is not good for the child under the current arrangement - a "when it suits deal" and you rightly point out, your friend is entitled to a job and a life that suits her and not when her ex allows her to. The maintenance is definitely not him paying her to have the children - it is to cover basic costs like food, clothes and a roof over their heads.
Tell you friend to go to mediation ASAP - the longer this goes on, the harder it will be to change the status quo.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 11/01/2023 16:38

Problem is even if he gets every other weekend and one midweek he can still not pick them up if he's working so she's in no better a position. She can't rely on him.

DoubleGauze · 11/01/2023 16:43

She needs to treat him as unreliable , sort childcare for her work schedule accordingly , then let cms know how often he really has them.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 11/01/2023 16:50

Unfortunately she won’t be able to make him take them. My ex got a court order for set times and still didn’t stick to them - nothing I can do.

What she should do is keep a note of how often he does have them and then go to CMS to sort out maintenance based on the actual average nights, rather than the planned nights.

Willyoujustbequiet · 11/01/2023 16:52

No a judge won't say she has to work round him.

She needs to apply for a Child Arrangement Order which will stipulate the contact schedule. She can then send this to CMS as proof for maintenance.

He can't have his cake and eat it but there is no point delaying. He's shown her who he is - she needs to force his hand.

DogBowlsAreMyWeapon · 11/01/2023 16:58

In a not dissimilar situation I had his contact dates drawn up into a legal doc. If he chose not to see the children then that was fine. But I was not going to play games not planning anything just in case his lordship deigned to step up.

it was having a detrimental effect upon our lives because I wasn’t even able to book a holiday away in the school holidays because he wouldn’t give dates.

controlling twats.

Shiraztonight · 11/01/2023 17:05

She can't change or rely upon him. I used to pay a chilminder for times when dc should have been with their father, I should not have to do that but the best thing I ever did. Get maintenance sorted ( unfortunately I never got that) and encourage her to focus on what she can do and not what he doesn't.

forsummer · 11/01/2023 17:37

I don't have any advice but I know my husband would do this if I left him. Hi job is "so important" that everything has always had to work around it. He has never done any childcare ever.
Plus when he's at work he leaves the house at 7.30 am and doesn't get back till about 6.30. I really can't imagine when he would be able to have them during the week because he wouldn't be able to take /fetch them from school and absolutely no way during the school holidays. So I stay with him til they are older

underneaththeash · 11/01/2023 17:39

She needs to go back to him and say that as he's having the children 2 nights a week, they'll have to re-calculate maintenance. Or he can fix his days.

SeasonFinale · 11/01/2023 17:44

Yes as much as she doesn't want to she will have to go to court to get her child arrangement order so she can then get the proper maintenance from him. At the moment he is just calling all the shots. But she is letting him.

Nchangeagain · 11/01/2023 17:45

She's tried saying that to him, re having to up maintenance or have their dd for more days, but he just blocks her and ignores it or shouts and swears and then hangs up, and she can't physically force him to have their dd, short of dropping her off there and refusing to pick her up or not letting her back home...but that would just seem to punish their child, which she obviously doesn't want to do, and so here we are almost a year later with her getting very little time to herself and him swanning in and out as it suits.

OP posts:
Hankunamatata · 11/01/2023 17:51

I would start by telling maintenence he isn't having the youngest child 3 nights a week.
She needs to think like single parent. She can't rely on him. Organise childcare for days she works. She will know how far ahead his rota is so I'd start by saying I'd want at least a weeks notice in advance of his work shifts for him to have dd

gelatogina · 11/01/2023 17:53

This is you, not a friend right?

ThreeblackCats · 11/01/2023 17:58

Your friend could consider going back to court.

She tells her solicitor that the ex rarely has the children, is flakey in his reliability and the 15 no longer wants to spend time with him, the youngest doesn’t know him and doesn’t want to spend time with him, she wants more maintenance and less contact as the children’s lives are disrupted by him and his attitude to his family.

Count yourself er, I mean tell your friend to count herself lucky. I know of a dad who fought for 100% custody of his children, lied to get it, got it then told his children he wished he hadn’t because they were hard work and horrible. He was a social worker! I heard this direct from the mouth of his now adult daughter who was traumatised by not being allowed to even talk to her mum. She still struggles today.

At 15 the eldest will not be forced to spend time with his dad if he doesn’t want it.

This is a horrible situation for everyone involved.

arethereanyleftatall · 11/01/2023 18:00

Apply through CSA (or whatever it's called) based on the amount he's had the dc over this past month. Tough shit on him. He can't have it both ways. Yes, full time work is massively tough with dc.

Soothsayer1 · 11/01/2023 18:05

why would she even want them spending time with mr horrible & shouty?
I would just factor him out and act as if he no longer exists

Ihatethenewlook · 11/01/2023 18:11

The thing with contact orders is that they only really work for parents who both want to see their kids more. The court could order the standard 1 day in the week and every other weekend, but there’s no laws to force him to have the children on those days. I think the only thing your friend can do to even try and get him to have them regularly, is tell him to either have the children set days, or not see them at all. She’d have to put her money where her mouth is though and follow through. In the meantime she’d have to do what pp have already said and just act like she’s a single mum. Arrange childcare and whatever jobs she can do around it. The bonus to this is her getting more maintenance for having the children 100 percentage of the time, it might give him a kick up the arse to arrange something as well if he’s having to fork out more money. No court will side with dad and agree that mums never allowed to get a job, have a break or have a good routine for the kids just so dad can do whatever he likes. Your friend needs to keep all messages etc proving that she’s not stopping contact out of spite, she’s trying to establish set days for her and a routine for the kids.

GinIronic · 11/01/2023 18:12

Your friend should act as if she has no support from the ex at all. Do not rely on his money or time. If he should see the DC or send money - that should be treated as a bonus. Your friend needs to stop assuming that her ex will be reasonable and fair.

Soothsayer1 · 11/01/2023 18:18

he doesnt want to be a father to his children, he just wants to use them to punish thier mother for refusing to subordinate herself to him.
He wont improve, she would do better to just freeze him out and drop off his radar...otherwise he'll be a thorn in all thier sides for evermore

grandmashotdoodlebugs · 11/01/2023 18:32

My view of going to mediation and court is different. I've been through it but with a slight difference.

I would advise not seeking mediation or court. Instead stop contact. Having written evidence of the ex's flakiness is vital though so make a calculated move towards this.

All communication in writing from now on. Every single thing. Hopefully this will build some evidence of his inability to put children before himself.

Then stop contact. Do not facilitate it at all. Update maintenance claim with CMS.

If he really cares, it it is that important to him, he can book mediation and begin court.

Do not invite him into court thinking you need an order. You are opening the door and inviting a lazy fuck wit the east route to continue to control.

You have parental responsibility and part of that is putting the needs of the child first regardless of his behaviour. He either shapes up or you ship out.

You don't need to say anything to the children other than his work patterns are making it tricky for him at the moment but you're sure jt will improve.

Take control.

365names · 11/01/2023 18:38

Willyoujustbequiet · 11/01/2023 16:52

No a judge won't say she has to work round him.

She needs to apply for a Child Arrangement Order which will stipulate the contact schedule. She can then send this to CMS as proof for maintenance.

He can't have his cake and eat it but there is no point delaying. He's shown her who he is - she needs to force his hand.

This and also CMS is based on the NR parent - she can add up the nights he has actually has them in the last 12 months and asked the CMS to organised cm on the basis of salary and the number of nights per week he has them. He should of course being paying for them.

she can offer 50/50 but if he doesn’t do it she ups the maintenance and of course she can work days. The children are old enough.

or he has every other weekend and Tuesday and Thursday nights with drop off at school averaging 2-3 nights a week.

I suggest she get a solicitor to send him a letter offering one week on and off and stating her client has applied to the CMS and done it on the nights he has the children in the previous 12 months and that can focus the mind.

ImBlueDab · 11/01/2023 19:10

She can't 'make him' have the dc on particular days. The only thing
She can do is set out the days he can have them. If he doesn't turn up then so be it, but he can't chop and change, if he doesn't have them overnight when he should then she contacts cms and makes amendments to the payment

She'll just have to sort flexible child care so she can go back to work full time

Nchangeagain · 12/01/2023 18:32

Not finished reading all the replies but I can assure you that this isn't for me, @gelatogina et al, who have said it is. What would be the point in pretending?...this is an anonymous forum.

She hasn't been to court, mediation or cms yet as she was hoping they could sort it between them amicably. She's almost at a point where she's going to give up and just make do with what he gives her and will try to get her family to help her out so she can work.

Also, he doesn't shout around the dc ; this has been over the phone to my friend whilst the dc are at school. I'm pretty sure he wasn't a shouty person before they split, so I'm assuming this is him lashing out because he's hurt (not excusing it though).

OP posts:
Fraaahnces · 12/01/2023 18:43

He’s not going to work it out with her because she continues to make it work for him. She is going to have to make it hurt for him legally.

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