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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think we could make housing estates like Center Parcs re cars

809 replies

QuertyGirl · 10/01/2023 12:38

The USP of Centre Parcs is for many, the fact that they are mostly car free. Kids can play out and ride their bikes like I did when I was kid.

Can't do that now due to the amount of cars, speed and size of cars and, attitude of some car drivers.

People (including myself) pay a small fortune to holiday at CP.

Why can't we make housing estates more like that?

Communal car parks in walking distance, deliveries by small electric vehicles from a hub (like old fashioned milk floats), exemptions for blue badge holders and funding for electric mobility scooters for those that need them.

Yet, if the council suggests a couple of cycle lane and all hell breaks loose.

OP posts:
EmmaEmerald · 10/01/2023 18:40

CuteOrangeElephant · 10/01/2023 18:36

Ok granted 10 might be excessive. I used to live 3 minutes walk from my car. Even with a newborn it wasn't as big of a deal as people on here are making it out to be.

Both my brothers live a 5 minute cycle/10 minutes away from their car, because they live in a city centre and don't want to shell out for a permit. Does it suck sometimes? Absolutely. But they just deal with it.

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Same when I had a car and parking permit - it was for a zone so I often parked streets away!

what I'm wondering is why anyone would intentionally build that set up, or impose it on people. But OP isn't going to answer those questions, it seems.

Lisbon37 · 10/01/2023 18:42

I actually think it's a great idea OP!

Transporting heavy shopping solved by carts/wheelbarrows stacked in car park. (Though understand this wouldn't work with disabilities)

I live in London without off street parking- it's not at all unusual to have to park on a different street as not enough on street parking - you just get used to managing it! Not everyone needs to park immediately outside their house!

The benefits of kids just going out to play massively outweigh a bit of minor inconvenience. Sending kids out to play - so much easier than constantly arranging play dates or just letting them watch too much TV as they're bored at home.

daybroke · 10/01/2023 18:47

CuteOrangeElephant · 10/01/2023 18:27

The OP is not saying that all housing estates should be converted or that people in rural villages should give up their cars. Some people are taking this in a really extreme way. OP is also not saying that the cars should be a 10 minutes walk away 🙄. Some people really like to get wound up about nothing.

She is. She said she lives on an old estate the subject of the thread.

CunTea · 10/01/2023 18:47

This is the absolute most middle class thing I have ever heard. Hilarious.

WhiteFire · 10/01/2023 18:49

CuteOrangeElephant · 10/01/2023 18:39

What makes you think that successful designs from Scandinavia and the Netherlands can't be copied to the UK?

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Because it has already been proved not to work, because they don't, for all the reasons stated by the poster I quoted.

We have those types of estates already in the UK (maybe it is just in a corner of NE England) and they are generally not great places to live.

EmmaEmerald · 10/01/2023 18:49

Lisbon37 · 10/01/2023 18:42

I actually think it's a great idea OP!

Transporting heavy shopping solved by carts/wheelbarrows stacked in car park. (Though understand this wouldn't work with disabilities)

I live in London without off street parking- it's not at all unusual to have to park on a different street as not enough on street parking - you just get used to managing it! Not everyone needs to park immediately outside their house!

The benefits of kids just going out to play massively outweigh a bit of minor inconvenience. Sending kids out to play - so much easier than constantly arranging play dates or just letting them watch too much TV as they're bored at home.

Ah, so you see it as convenience for off loading the kids you wanted? Mmkay.

EmmaEmerald · 10/01/2023 18:50

CunTea · 10/01/2023 18:47

This is the absolute most middle class thing I have ever heard. Hilarious.

IKR?

on the bright side, you'd know where to go to get some weed immediately, as opposed to keeping up with what street they're on today.

LordEmsworth · 10/01/2023 18:56

CuteOrangeElephant · 10/01/2023 18:27

The OP is not saying that all housing estates should be converted or that people in rural villages should give up their cars. Some people are taking this in a really extreme way. OP is also not saying that the cars should be a 10 minutes walk away 🙄. Some people really like to get wound up about nothing.

The OP literally said that cars would be parked at least 10 minutes' walk away - "10 to 15 minutes".

The OP has not at any point specified "well this would only apply to urban areas which have plenty of good public transport infrastructure, nearby shops offering reasonably-priced food, and local schools / GPs / other services that have space for all the local people." So not exactly unreasonable to point out that if you live in a small town in the middle of Lincolnshire with 2 buses a day, if you're lucky, then you might not think it's a brilliant idea.

And frankly the OP's statement that it's a shame that people who aren't able-bodied "feel" stigmatised and shouldn't feel that way, beggars belief. The OP has clearly never been through the DLA assessment process, and never heard of Fiona Pilkington & her daughter.

Just to be clear - I mostly travel by bike and on foot, in an area badly served by public transport, and I agree that the infrastructure is diabolical and needs improvement. However shipping off middle-class, able-bodied people like me to live in this lovely little community, while leaving poorer, less able-bodied people where they are to muddle along, is not the utopia the OP seems to think it would be.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 10/01/2023 18:56

EmmaEmerald · 10/01/2023 18:49

Ah, so you see it as convenience for off loading the kids you wanted? Mmkay.

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Thing is, it would be beneficial if kids could play out, like they used to in the past. It’s not natural for them to be dependant on screens and their parents for entertainment.

However there are lots of very valid reasons on this thread why it may not work, mainly that it seems every initiative in this country is done in a way that makes it crap, and if that failure isn’t built in, we seem to manage to make it crap ourselves

Nutrigrainygoodness · 10/01/2023 18:59

I live up a big hill, there is no chance I am walking up my hill with 3 bags for life of shopping 😂

Would this magic carpark be manned? Have floodlights and cctv?
Be a free for all for burglars if not.
Could you imagine?!

EmmaEmerald · 10/01/2023 19:00

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 10/01/2023 18:56

Thing is, it would be beneficial if kids could play out, like they used to in the past. It’s not natural for them to be dependant on screens and their parents for entertainment.

However there are lots of very valid reasons on this thread why it may not work, mainly that it seems every initiative in this country is done in a way that makes it crap, and if that failure isn’t built in, we seem to manage to make it crap ourselves

Show quote history

They can play out....this mass car park the OP wants could be a lovely green space, while people continue to park near their homes.

I actually remember a kid being knocked over by a milk float in my road!

Streets are for practicalities, they're not parks. Any one of the permitted vehicles could injure a child.

then there's the days most in my age bracket will recall - you stay indoors because the big kids are out. It's just a weird utopia where this is a good idea. Or ...a holiday park...or an estate you might choose to buy a property in.

no thought for the less well off.

daybroke · 10/01/2023 19:01

It's the inference that it's somehow a choice for some of us to live rurally and that we should move to the towns. As if it's just that easy.

My ex was/is a farmhand with a tied cottage. We lived there. Divorced and my kids were settled at school so I private rented in the village, then got a council house and then bought a house in 2019. I bought the smallest house in the development because that's all I could afford. I can't afford to buy in the town because it's half again or a bit more expensive.

But you know. It's a choice I made to live here 🙄. Not something I did for the sake of stability for my kids or anything.

WinterSnowing · 10/01/2023 19:01

YES!

I would move there in an instant. I don’t have a car, and I can’t be the only one. It would fantastic, there could be a bus service and allowances for drop offs and maintenance. But car free would be brilliant, think of the wildlife and being able to have the kids play. Also no through traffic so it would nice and calm.

jannier · 10/01/2023 19:04

Bogasphodel · 10/01/2023 18:22

I meant that it had been built in the 70s, I lived there 3 years ago….

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Most 70s estates have been deemed so dangerous for pedestrians people are scared to go out, some even in the day the pedestrian walkways are scary. My local town was made a pedestrian zone nobody goes through it after dark if they know the area the police are always being called.

Nimbostratus100 · 10/01/2023 19:04

FlorenceAndTheVendingMachine · 10/01/2023 18:02

Same with anything. You could lost your sight, ability to walk, mental faculties. Many things.

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it is nothing like the same. Eye damage doesn't make it illegal for you to try and look at things, leg damage doesn't make it illegal for you to find a way of getting yourself around. But moving from one second to another, you can legally lose your licence to drive. There are a lot of people registered to Mumsnet - there is likely to be people here who have a licence now, but something will happen in the next few hours and they will lose it by tomorrow.

ichundich · 10/01/2023 19:05

I think it sounds nice and would make for better neighbourhoods. I can see this kind of development in places like Cambridge or Bristol, but the majority of the UK (Tory shires) is not ready for it. Where I live there isn't even a foot or cycling path to the nearest town (1.5 miles away); the only way to get there safely is by car. But you'd be surprised by how many people in our village are still dead against a cycling path.

CuteOrangeElephant · 10/01/2023 19:06

My brother's girlfriend has a driving licence and well-controlled epilepsy. When she had a fit she had to surrender her licence for at least a year.

kafkascastle · 10/01/2023 19:07

QuertyGirl · 10/01/2023 13:09

I can't drive due to disability

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Not all disabilities are the same.

jannier · 10/01/2023 19:07

Lisbon37 · 10/01/2023 18:42

I actually think it's a great idea OP!

Transporting heavy shopping solved by carts/wheelbarrows stacked in car park. (Though understand this wouldn't work with disabilities)

I live in London without off street parking- it's not at all unusual to have to park on a different street as not enough on street parking - you just get used to managing it! Not everyone needs to park immediately outside their house!

The benefits of kids just going out to play massively outweigh a bit of minor inconvenience. Sending kids out to play - so much easier than constantly arranging play dates or just letting them watch too much TV as they're bored at home.

Can just imagine the wheelbarrow fiasco with them being stolen....just like shopping trolleys ....even bolt cutters being used. But if you can afford the congestion and Ulez I guess a taxi is an option. Most of us won't have cars in London soon ....or jobs.

CuteOrangeElephant · 10/01/2023 19:08

ichundich · 10/01/2023 19:05

I think it sounds nice and would make for better neighbourhoods. I can see this kind of development in places like Cambridge or Bristol, but the majority of the UK (Tory shires) is not ready for it. Where I live there isn't even a foot or cycling path to the nearest town (1.5 miles away); the only way to get there safely is by car. But you'd be surprised by how many people in our village are still dead against a cycling path.

But why?! That's perfect cycling distance. That would take less than 10 minutes. I don't understand why so many people are against improving the cycling infrastructure.

gretti · 10/01/2023 19:09

It would be great if we lived in a world where we were always ahead of time, if we had well behaved kids who got their shoes on 10 minutes before they needed too and all human were built like mr muscle to carry their shopping from the car to the house.

Can you imagine just getting in after a long tiring day, realising you've left your phone in the car and had another 20 min walk to do to pick it up?

ichundich · 10/01/2023 19:10

I think it sounds nice and would make for better neighbourhoods. I can see this kind of development in places like Cambridge or Bristol, but the majority of the UK (Tory shires) is not ready for it. Where I live there isn't even a foot or cycling path to the nearest town (1.5 miles away); the only way to get there safely is by car. But you'd be surprised by how many people in our village are still dead against a cycling path.

jannier · 10/01/2023 19:12

People still wouldn't let their children play out as bullying, murders, abuse and kidnapping are in most parents minds.....no matter how small a risk most are not prepared to risk it.

ichundich · 10/01/2023 19:13

CuteOrangeElephant · 10/01/2023 19:08

But why?! That's perfect cycling distance. That would take less than 10 minutes. I don't understand why so many people are against improving the cycling infrastructure.

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Apparently the school bus to the local secondary might then no longer run, because it would be less than 2.3 miles. I strongly doubt that would happen though, since the cycle path would not be considered "safe" enough for school kids over such a distance, through empty fields, etc.

XenoBitch · 10/01/2023 19:15

Center Parcs is a novelty and seems lovely because it is a holiday destination. It is not real life, where people have jobs, deliveries, carers etc.