We ride at dawn - for the NHS

[GloGirl]

Seriously, are we the public going to do anything about this? Can we coordinate a mass protest/march? Mini protests outside hospitals? Has everyone been writing to their MP?

I can't read these headlines any more, it's breaking my heart. I was sure during covid it would force the govt to reconsider its treatment of the NHS - that it would force a change in priority for social care, pay, structures, staffing.

How did we hit a new low, and just keep going? Who is with me??

I would love to help do something about the crisis @GloGirl . I just don't know what that something is!

I am getting sick of the narrative on here though about people having to 'manage their own health', from the fat shamers, the people who disagree with antidepressants etc. God forbid these people are ever met with an illness that either causes obesity or for their MH to take a massive downturn. I wonder if they would appreciate the 'just eat a salad and get some fresh air' POV then!!

The situation with the NHS is scary, really scary, but the media love a shitstorm (look at covid) and will print heart wrenching headlines to cause mass panic. I am not downplaying the situation we are in, at all, I have read first hand accounts from Dr's and my best friend is a paramedic so I know it's dire.

I just wish there was something that we, the general public, could do that would actually make a difference. Feeling so powerless is soul destroying.

Just to make it clear when we are being told the hospitals are full of people who are medically fit for discharge that includes those who are paralyzed from a stroke as they were delayed arriving at a&e due to no ambulances. Medically fit does not mean able to care for themselves it could mean dying or needing full time life long care and there are very few nursing homes, rehab places left or even district nurses.

I would happily protest with you OP. I'm seriously considering starting a blog too. Publicity about what it's really like in the NHS at the moment, my own ideas to tackle the issues (not just more money, we're past that now), I have rejoined my local Labour Party (I don't want to hear it; I've been around long enough to know that Labour are not innocent in the current state but at least my Labour rep listens, as does the party leader. My Tory MP, on the other hand....). It's not just about making people accountable for their own decisions, it's about redesigning an entire system from the chaos that is currently both health and social care.

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you, I was just pointing out that more money isn't a sustainable solution when every other part of the system that the NHS relies on - from education to social care - is also woefully underperforming.

In fairness, I only quoted your post because you referred to funding; I was really talking about the fact that all political discussion is based on doing things to the NHS (whether it be reform, money or anything else) where the sustainable solution has to encompass everything else the NHS touches or relies upon too.

@Mummyford you are right. I research 'upstream' health interventions at a population level. Intervene early (and our studies are really early in the lifecourse, age 0-5) before the acute health episode is even on the horizon and it has been proven extensively that you save public money instead of firefighting with costly interventions. This applies to both physical and mental health.

If you have a population that is healthier for longer they contribute more to the social system - economically (you buy more things when you are healthy and alive and you tend to be able to work for longer the healthier you are) and in terms of social structures (healthier, living extended families provide care for longer is just one example). Austerity will have the biggest health impact in the next 50 years - if you reduce people's access to money they become less healthy. So they might be alive longer (due to advances in acute medicine) but if that body isn't healthy but is alive, it costs the social structure a lot. Poverty is a huge indicator of how long your healthy life is - but it is politically very unpopular to put in interventions that address poverty unfortunately. Collectively we don't want to give money to people we see as the undeserving poor. So firefighting it is.

That is NOT going to save the health service.

Do you think all that dieting is going to save someone in a car accident? Or the other million reasons why we need a functioning a and e?

Individualising the problem is not the answer.

How come people in literal dictatorships still go out and protest and topple governments, and we in this relatively liberal land have just given up?

We ride at dawn? Or at 8.30 for 9, ish

Well Germany spends $6500 per patient per annum. The USA spends $10,900

France spend $5200, Ireland spend $5000.

The NHS spends $4200.

Enough to match some of those systems would be a start. We're lagging behind.

We are not as wealthy as Germany or USA though are we?

Agree with this

The NHS is a bottomless pit of money - more money won’t solve the issues. Ultimately we have what we (collective we - I certainly didn’t) voted for - Brexit and a Tory government. No, I’m not willing to pay more tax to shore up a health service which is in the state it’s in due to the public voting for the decisions which have led to that in the first place.

people during Brexit kept telling us “they knew what they voted for”. Well this was it. I just hope they don’t have the cheek to moan.

No point where I live.

Nicola Sturgeon isn't doing anything either.

Not just the Tories. SNP just as bad.

And don’t forget Labour in Wales @MajorCarolDanvers - a shitshow even worse than England. (I live on the border).

And she had the cheek to advise us to wear masks yesterday. Honest to God. I am doing no more to try and sort out the mess they made. Yes the NHS is a mess and it’s awful but it ain’t my doing or responsibility

Look at a new system including France etc. There is a reason we are the only country with it being 100% free to all regardless of what you have paid. I worked with the NHS for years as a supplier and the waste and mismanagement will make you cry. Cottage industries set up to present figures/charts etc, numerous people attending meetings about very little and then showing off to each other as to what their views were. No decisions ever made bar setting up another meeting.

You do know that 30% of taxes are paid by 1% of tax payers. What will be enought 40%, 50%?

The data you are quoting looks old as well. The NHS got a wedge of funding in the last year. What has been done with it??

Get people to look after their own health as well. Dont call ambulances for trival things (there is still a rumour that if you are brought in by a crew you will be seen much quicker). People on Facebook often mention this....

@Chippy1234 but the cost of pivoting to a system like France would be astronomical. Waste and pointless meetings are a feature of every business and health service: objectively the nhs is efficient compared to other systems.

If people put the effort into self care it would save the service for those who need it and can't self care.

High blood pressure leads to heart attacks, stroke, kidney disease... All can be prevented if you maintained a healthy diet and lifestyle. But no. People would far rather pop a pill because it's easier than recognising they need to overhaul their lives.

So much money could be saved in the NHS if people took a preventative approach to their wellbeing

And there are huge efforts being made around road safety education and innovations around car safety etc. Road deaths are down significantly due to simple things like intensive anti drink drive campaigns or making it illegal to use your phone and drive, use of car seats and seatbelts etc. All measures to preserve life but also take pressures off the NHS

Oh and fixing your blood pressure can prevent you having a heart attack or stroke behind the wheel....

Spiral what do you want us to die of? I definitely don't want old age!

The data you are quoting looks old as well. The NHS got a wedge of funding in the last year. What has been done with it??

It's from 2019. If you have more up to date info I'd love to read it.

Always the assumption that it's our NHS thats wasteful and bloated. Why haven't other countries also had significant investments since the pandemic? Increases due to inflation etc? We've had more cash - it must mean no one else has and that it's not been spent well.

People dont want to do 3 people's jobs they want to do one persons job. They don't want to go to work and not be able to eat drink or pee because they haven't got time. People don't want to be verbally or physically abused by patients and /or staff (stress can make you a not very nice person). The risk to your health the patients health and your registration is too much. Imagine going into work and having 25 ambulances waiting.outside to offload but you can't offload them because there aren't enough beds cubicles and /or staff. Daily event all over the UK.

Completely agree - why are we not out on the streets?

Although this does make me think of this Terry Pratchett quote:

The phrase 'Someone ought to do something' was not, by itself, a helpful one. People who used it never added the rider 'and that someone is me'.

Maybe the less visible failure of more or less privatised health/social care pre and post hospital care is funnelling visible failure in publicly funded hospital emergency and routine care?

Whether that is considered a public or private sector funding failure is political.

Surely there would be no 'bed blockers' if the largely privatised care system was working well? Will this impact on hospitals? And people would not choose to go to A&E for issues their GP could deal with if they could actually get a GP appointment. My GPs are now a pharmacy/smear test etc place only with no routine appointments for the foreseeable future. Will this impact on hospitals or self care and pharmacies?

Privatising a functioning system is hard. Best to trash it first.

You've just proved my point.