To even consider putting an offer in?

[Sunnyfootlands]

I went to view a house on Saturday. It's a 1920's 4 bed semi, but it has 2700 square feet of space indoors over 2 floors so it's absolutely massive but needs a lot of work. ON the market for £350k, ceiling value £400k max if it was totally renovated.

This is the list of work it needs:

12 big, non standard timber framed single pane windows updating to double glazed UPVC

2 glass patio doors replacing

Loft insulating

New kitchen (including a partition wall removing and new flooring and tiling plus possibly removal of a fireplace but not the whole chimney breast)

New bathroom (tiled, bath, toilet, sink and shower + enclosure)

New floors throughout downstairs (probably engineered wood for most, about 1000sqft not including kitchen to be tiled)

An unexplained damp patch fixing, it's localised to one wall, at ground level and actively wet. No other damp other than due to guttering anywhere in the house.

Then after that is general renovation like painting, carpets and decorating in the rest of the house.

It is my absolute dream property, but the amount of work scares me. Do you think it's possible to do that work for £50k (midlands), and if so would you consider doing it when you also own a toddler?

My 1920s semi detached house cost about 150k to renovate, in london, in 2019. I know london is meant to be more expensive but I imagine materials cost more now and Labour. My dad project managed for free and was good at sourcing good value materials etc. I would not want to do the work with a limited budget and a toddler.

How much of that is need and how much is like to have?

£50k wouldn't cover kitchen, bathroom and that volume of windows IME. We're midlands based & I'd budget £75k, is the partition wall load-bearing? All trades and materials have huge premiums at the moment due to supply and demand & lack of workforce. I'd offer £320k based on condition

I did all that in my house minus the 12 windows and it cost me £40k including decorating/ carpeting every room and all new appliances. Windows seem to cost a fortune- I got a quote pretty easily for 2 windows recently so maybe start there?

I would say not, given how expensive labour and building costs can be at the moment and my experience of houses being that there will definitely be things that need doing that aren’t immediately obvious. However, it is your dream house, how much do you need to worry about the ceiling price? Could you not just live in it for the foreseeable future and enjoy having it as your home without it mattering if you spent more on it than you would immediately recoup?

Do you think it's possible to do that work for £50k (midlands),
This is AIBU - responses will vary from "not a penny under £200k to do all that" to "My builder did all that plus rebuilt the channel tunnel in 1 day and babysat my children for £3.50".
You need to ask someone who does this kind of work.

How much of your list is an absolute "has to be done now to make it livable" and how much is a "would be nice to do in the future"?

I'd start at £300K and see where it takes you. Good luck!

I agree with @Kinnorafron that you need at least a rough estimate from a builder. Depending on the housing market in your area, you may or may not be able to negotiate access for said builder.

I am not a million miles from you and based on a lesser amount of work we had done last year, my guess is that this sounds like closer to £100K. Good luck

I think that's a stretch op.

If the windows are original can you see about them retrofitting the glass into the frames? Should save you a bit plus retaining its character.

Also if it needs that amount of work, what about the boiler and electrics?

I have been in the position of living in a house which literally started with a WC and a cold tap in the kitchen. It was a time and money pit.

You would need many different trades, all with their own work schedules and waiting times. You could be living in a partial building site for a year or more.

If you employed one company to project manage and arrange every part it would be quicker overall but much more expensive.

Do the downstairs floors need replacing? Or is engineered wood a choice?

A new kitchen could cost anywhere from £2K upwards, and a decent one for a 4 bed house, designed and installed could easily be £20K.

There are ways to cut costs in most areas, but they are often expensive in terms of time ( both yours and the length of the project).

Some people manage this type of work whilst parenting one or more children.

I wouldn’t want to be one of them.

Surely the property has been priced to take age into account? The only thing a true 'need to do' on that list would be the damp IMO, in the absence of more info.

How bad are the kitchen, bathroom and downstairs floors? Is everyone going to rip them out straight away, or are the functional, just not what you like?

I dont think that amount if work is crazy to attempt. I think 50k would be a low budget, and you are likely to want to spend more I've the way you are talking.

How long has the house been on the market?

Sounds like some of the work is ”nice to have” not structurally necessary nor essential to make it liveable.
If you’re going to be there for 15 years plus, then when you sell all you lovely kitchen units/ new flooring / new bathroom / new boiler will be fairly old and probably looking a little dated. So all the cosmetic stuff is really going to be for your own enjoyment. 20 years ago, oak kitchen units, black quartz worktop, burgundy tiles were seen as “classic” and “timeless”. But they’re not seen that way now...!

Id guess good windows and insulation will save you on heating as well as adding value in 15 years. Removing a wall probably would too. But IMO it’s a false hope that all of what you spend now will add (much) value in 15 years.

I think you could break the back of it with that budget OP but there's a lot of variables in terms of is it liveable in its current state etc.

I'd go in with an offer of something like 320 and see what happens. It's a crap market for sellers in most areas right now and with the work that needs doing, I think they'd have to seriously consider your offer.

Sorry but I don't think it's enough, building materials have rocketed. We've renovated all of our house with new borns and toddlers . You get used to the mess

In my local area, we are in a strange situation in terms of the housing market. Sellers want to base asking prices on recent Sold prices, which reflect the top of the market. Buyers can’t afford what they could have a few months ago, and it is a stalemate. We have a good opportunity to move but are ambivalent about marketing our house at present

Builders and decorators aren’t having any problems getting work, however, and their rates only seem to be going up. Along with the prices of their supplies

that to me looks more like £100k of work if you have a contingency fund of 10% ish for the unexpected costs that alway arise. If you've got that sort of money available and you like the house go for it.

As others have said the surevy will probably state that its only the damp patch that you would have to do (plus maybe the windows) - the rest if down to your personal taste. As for reducing the offer maybe go in at £315k ish as that is 90% of the cost.

If you like the house and your mortgage company thinks its worth the price you offered (plu you will be living there for 5+ years) it doesnt matter what the surrounding values are. Houses are primarliy for living in not for accumulating money!

I think it depends on if it needs doing now, or can wait a year or so.
Also whether you can do any of the work yourself, and what kind of spec you’re after.
If all that needs doing, what about the electrics and heating? Or the roof? Guttering, fascia? Plastering?
If it’s a wreck and it needs that much doing to it, you have a fixed budget and a toddler, I personally wouldn’t go for it. I think I would struggle with that budget, and doing work yourself with a toddler & at least one person working full-time was a nightmare for me.

You could start by getting a comprehensive survey, having a good nose around yourself, and talking to a local builder

I would budget for 100k. ( I renovated big time 5 years ago). If you PM and do all the running around, sourcing materials, quotes etc, may come in around 80. With a toddlers fine. Depends how liveable and timing. Renovating (Infrastructure ( say Nov to Feb is teduous. Be prepared to 'invest' over the current ceiling for the area..say 420 when done so I'd start at 290 & be prepared to go to 320. You probably should do electrics plumbing & heating if you're doing the other work.

Is your £50k budget how much you have to spend on it, or how much you'd be willing to spend given the valuation saying it wouldn't be worth more than £400k even if rennovated? Because if its the latter, I would be less focussed on that if it was my dream house. Its value only matters if you plan to sell it in the near future and see it as an investment. If you want to live in it, then its worth what ever you're willing and able to spend to make it a house you can live in (knowing that you might not recoup what you've spent if you ever do sell).

Is £50k what you have, or are you basing this on the ceiling price of £400k?
if this is all you have, then I would prioritise - damp and windows. Then, depending how bad they are, kitchen or bathroom.
both can cost a lot of money, or could be done on a budget.
But if you are asking because of the ceiling price… bathrooms and kitchens are mainly for your enjoyment- they will not be in a pristine condition when you sell. So they are not an investment as such.

@poetryandwine assume builders in demand as people can’t afford to move up the property ladder with interest rates and stamp duty so extending what they have

Why is 50 k the limit, are you planning to flip it? If not then it’s utterly irrelevant and have been watching too much Sarah beeny. Much if the work is also nice to do, so do it if you wish to do it to enjoy it and live in it.

so you need to be clear, what is it you’re doing and why