To even consider putting an offer in?

[Sunnyfootlands]

I went to view a house on Saturday. It's a 1920's 4 bed semi, but it has 2700 square feet of space indoors over 2 floors so it's absolutely massive but needs a lot of work. ON the market for £350k, ceiling value £400k max if it was totally renovated.

This is the list of work it needs:

12 big, non standard timber framed single pane windows updating to double glazed UPVC

2 glass patio doors replacing

Loft insulating

New kitchen (including a partition wall removing and new flooring and tiling plus possibly removal of a fireplace but not the whole chimney breast)

New bathroom (tiled, bath, toilet, sink and shower + enclosure)

New floors throughout downstairs (probably engineered wood for most, about 1000sqft not including kitchen to be tiled)

An unexplained damp patch fixing, it's localised to one wall, at ground level and actively wet. No other damp other than due to guttering anywhere in the house.

Then after that is general renovation like painting, carpets and decorating in the rest of the house.

It is my absolute dream property, but the amount of work scares me. Do you think it's possible to do that work for £50k (midlands), and if so would you consider doing it when you also own a toddler?

We bought our house 5 years ago, our list of “to do” was similar but also included new roof, new boiler etc.

we still have the old kitchen lol, it’s perfectly functional so we just live with it until we’ve saved up the 50k+ it’s likely to cost for everything we want. It depends how happy you are to live in a house that looks dated and if this work is necessary in order for the house to function!

Speaking as someone that lives in a period property myself, if your saying there's an un explained damp patch expect a lot more problems to be on your list then just carpets and a new kitchen 😂 Old houses often come with lots of problems that just rinse you dry, it's part of having an older property. Just wanted to warn you that damp patches often lead to more problems than what you have seen/been noted on the survey 😊

I would say quite a lot more, you always need more than you think plus a contingency fund. Tradesmen and material prices have gone up in the last year or two. Timber is a LOT more expensive now.

I would get a builder to go and have a look round with you if you're serious about it.
It would also put you in a better position to put in a lower offer if you can show your workings out.

“Updating” the old non standard windows to UPVC would ruin the house imo. So for that alone I am voting YABU .

It will cost way more than 50k.

Where are you that a 2700 sq foot over 2 floors house has a ceiling value of 400k when renovated?

If it's your dream house go for it and prioritise jobs that need doing. Take your time.

It's £1000 a window (unless you go for bog standard uPVC) at least near me.
Honestly can't see you touching the sides with your budget, unless you are very handy and plan on doing a lot of the work yourself.
But if you love the house and plan on staying I wouldn't worry so much about going over the ceiling price of the area. Prices will eventually catch up.

You couldn't do bathroom, kitchen and windows for £50,000. I think you'd need to pick 2 of the 3 and could probably then do a decent amount of decorating.

It's probably the windows that are going to cause the problem.

So the absolute need to do's to make it safe and dry are:

• Windows (rotten timber frames, one has a pane missing) in the bedrooms we're using (our bedroom is already done, toddlers room will need a new window, the office window), and in the kitchen and living room so in total, 3 windows and 2 patio doors.

• Damp patch

• Flooring in the lounge where the damp patch is (you'll need the floor up to find the cause of the damp and it's the original parquet with a carpet on top, so will need reflooring after that)

• The house needs a full rewire

• Roof insulation - i'd want this done before next winter (cavity wall is done, so by fixing the windows ad the roof you'd end up moving it from a D to a good C. it's big rooms and high ceilings so a total nightmare to heat without it)

The plumbing and heating are good, boiler is 7 years old. The roof is good, done in the last 20 years by the looks of it (we took a tame builder with us to view)

£50k budget is based on how much we want to borrow (equity in our current house + borrowing budget of £405k). I don't want to be over leveraged basically.

I also have £40k of inheritance currently in probate that I'd probably use for the bigger cosmetic jobs (kitchen and 2 bathrooms) thinking about it, so total refurb budget is more like £80-90k but with £40k landing at some point next year.

Is it really only going to be worth 400k once fully refurbed? If so, from the sound of the disrepair its overpriced significantly at what its on for now

Just on the rewire @Sunnyfootlands I've just had my similar sized house rewired for £8000, for budgeting purposes.

Have you checked you are allowed to replace the windows with uPVC?

Not going to say in case it drives too much interest in the house and I end up in a bidding war - but basically round here even in the height of the pandemic, a semi detached 4 bed property cannot sell for over £380k. There was a really hot market from 2020 through most of 2021, highest prices have ever been with a lot of people moving to this area from big cities because they could get a huge 4 bed for the price of a 2 bed flat. Still, even in that climate there was a number of similar houses to this one, totally renovated to a good standard and the most any of them achieved was £380k and that one was on the market for a month and dropped from £420k - unheard of at that time.

Granted, this one is in a beautiful part of town and is slightly bigger, so my £400k estimate is accounting for that. The problem is, on this street no one ever moves out so there's very few sold prices here specifically to look at. I do have an estate agent friend though who had a look for me and thought the same, although he reckoned if you totally finished it to a very high standard.

It's been on the market 3 months by the way to whoever asked that, average selling time for 4 bed semi's is 2 weeks.

Yes, the bay windows at the front have already been done and there are no restrictions on the house at all. There's some on the houses to the right of it because it's in an area of natural beauty, but this house is just outside that.

That's brilliantly helpful, thank you. Did that include the whole house and adding more sockets/ spotlights by any chance?

See, this is my feeling. I think if we put in an offer I'm thinking a start at £300k but is that unbelievably cheeky?

Both @Sunnyfootlands!

I think if you ask the agent to give a short explanation to the seller as to why the offer is what it is, it's fine. They can only say no.

I know some people say you'll annoy the seller and you might, but then again, you might get a deal.

There is no agent as such, it's being sold by a property management company because the previous owner died without any family, so I think a rational explanation of what it's worth given the work needed is the way forward?

Ah! So very similar - thank you!

I would get someone in to look at the damp patch first if you could. My new neighbours had a “little damp patch” that ended up costing them £50k to fix. Most of the other stuff is pretty standard pricing but the damp patch could be something small or big.

it's also VERY strange - it's on the wall that joins the house to next door. We knocked on next door and spoke to the neighbors and checked, and on their side of the wall there's no sign of it. Our builder reckoned it might be that the house had a damp proofing course at some point and they inexplicably missed one wall - but he couldn't explain how that would happen. There's also a possibility that it's a pipe that froze and burst in the cold snap - given the house has been empty a year that's possible but doesnt explain why THAT pipe given it's about as far from the outside walls as possible. Referral damp that's travelling there somehow i think is most likely.

It's worth asking, why is it your dream property? Is it location, the style of house etc. You also have to ask yourself what is your dream lifestyle. If you don't cope well with mess or upheaval then the dream could become a nightmare especially if juggling small children and work.
Personally, having lived in a period property before that didn't need anywhere near as much doing as yours, I don't think 50k will be enough.
We are currently doing a loft conversion in our current property and costs have sky rockettes, as well as regulations changed which has had an effect on our costs.
Personally unless I was planning to stay put a very long time, I wouldn't want to invest over the market ceiling price at this time.

I’m also midlands and on a 3 bed, I spent 19k to gut it, for full rewire, bathroom refurb, plastering most rooms and having to panel the utility which was bare brick, flooring throughout, new radiators and gas fire and a new front door (a good quality one). I had family friends do a lot but I paid them fair prices and I didn’t need a new kitchen as there was one (if only a cheap one). Have spent a few thousand since on fixing the chimney and driveway (did a lot of that myself to keep costs low).

i created a spreadsheet and wrote a list of essentials and desirables. Then went on tradechecker to get averages. Added 10% and figured that was my budget. To do everything I really wanted would have been 30k but I compromised and have a lovely livable house for 20k.

top tip: go to Kidderminster for carpets if you’re in the midlands (it’s where the factories are and I carpeted everywhere I needed in my house with 100% wool carpets for less than £1400).

@PrimarilyParented there are quite a few 'Kidderminster carpets' dotted around the midlands that all sell the same discounted carpet you're talking about