To send feedback to this church

[candlelightflora]

Just interested in people’s opinions on this.

I used to go to church with DD when she was younger, but stopped during covid. Then we moved to a new area, too far from the old church to go there anymore. I’ve wanted to start going to church again for a while and DD was keen to go as she has good memories of the old church. So I found a church nearby which has a “family service” once a month.

For context, we live in a town with a very well-regarded state secondary school which is selective on faith grounds. DD is only 7 so too young for us to be thinking about secondary applications yet.

Having now been to a “family service” at the church, I think they should re-name it to “service for people who want to get their kids into [insert name of well-regarded secondary faith school]”.

When I arrived, people were queuing to get their “passports” stamped. I said it was our first time at the church and rather than receiving a welcome, how are you, what has brought you here (as I was expecting) I got a brusque “how old is your daughter? Ok she doesn’t need one of these then”.

DD said she’d like to collect the stamps so I asked if we could have a “passport” anyway just for fun (it was literally a folded piece of paper) even though we’re not applying for secondary school yet and was unapologetically told that was not allowed.

The service itself had zero family focus in my opinion, it just seemed like a shortened version of a normal service. The hymns were really quiet as nobody was really singing, I spotted a couple of adults on their phones, and I literally did not see one single adult there who didn’t have a child with them of late primary age (i.e. applying for secondary schools in the next couple of years). Our old church had a really interactive sermon aimed at kids, lots of opportunities to join in, colouring and toys for the younger ones but there was nothing like that.

DD left saying she thought it was really boring and doesn’t want to go again. I left feeling really annoyed that we’d been made to feel so unwelcome.

Is there any point in me diplomatically feeding this back to the church? Or should I just move on and try a different church. I guess it could be that they just don’t care - they know they need to provide a service for those applying to the secondary school and this meets that need. But the whole thing just felt so cynical and I’m annoyed that something billed as a “family service” wasn’t really that at all.

Reading your post made me feel really sad as this is not what church should be.

Have heard of other churches like this. A friend went to one, which used a points system. You got more points for helping on the tea rota, attending Alpha Course etc. It didn’t take into consideration whether you were a single parents or has child with additional needs which would make it more difficult for parent to “earn the points”.

Take heart that not all churches are like this. The church I go, has a thriving children and youth ministry team and works towards including all in its services. The only way it notes if you’ve attended is from the register kept within the children groups and that would include if your child only ever attended the kids’ version of the youth group midweek and not church. They will countersign form you’ve submitted to school to verify that your child has attended there. A much better system and people actually feel welcomed and included in the church, rather than just turning up for “points”.

Please do feedback to the church and maybe to the Bishop of the area so that they are made aware of how this is unwelcoming and also not a way of bringing people to faith.

I can't help wondering whether the church specifically puts on this once a month service for this reason only, and all the other services would be where you'd find the regular congregation.

Maybe see what other services there are, and go to one of them instead.

What? I had no idea some Church's are doing this. I can't say i've seen it at the Churches i have attended and there are lots of kids and teens in my current one.

I would try a different Church.

I’d go back to old Church if you can and let new Church know that you were real worshipers who were made to feel
unwelcome.

Well churches have been forcing attendance for hundreds of years and this is just another example of it.

Well what do you expect? The church's preposterous occupation of the education system to the point where religious discrimination is allowed has forced people to behave like this. People should be entitled to a place at their local school, it's outrageous that lack of church attendance can prevent this.

You anger should be directed at the system and the corrupt behaviour of the church.

It’s a very large town, there are plenty of other schools!

Please do give them feedback and find another church. Unfortunately a large number of people every year do "find religion" around 6 months before school applications are due, they often are "desperate" to have children baptised in September I find. I also seem to have a rush of engaged couples about now, all saying they do have a "strong connection" to our beautiful church despite living 15 miles away and I'm pretty sure never visiting the church before that day.

Might be on to something with the passports .... though we have a proper family service!

It’s a very large town, there are plenty of other schools!

There are so many secondary schools that people can still go to a nearby one that isn't affiliated with this church?

Can you get a passport that makes sure your child doesn't get a place at a religious school?

I agree with you, it made me feel really sad that some churches are set up in this way. So transactional.

I suppose I can just laugh it off and try a different church in a couple of weeks. I’ve had positive experiences in the past with other churches so I know that it can be a lot better than this. But someone attending for the first time might be completely put off.

Yes! Maybe that’s unusual, I didn’t realise.

Perhaps just find a different church where you’re not so distracted by judging everybody. It’s a wasted trip if your whole time was spent looking around you and finding fault.

I'd just look for a better church. My school doesn't do passports or anything like that. You have to have proof of baptism to go to primary and you'd have to attend mass to get your child baptised (I didn't but that's a different story).

You also have to have proof of baptism to get into the secondary but there's no requirement to do first Holy communion or attend church in the previous decade.

People tend to show up at mass around first Holy communion and then stop again. Means many dc don't get as far as confirmation.

Whilst I think its a shame so many people are not interested in their faith my priest takes a lovely relaxed attitude and see the big picture that in these crumbs of religion lie seeds of future faith for anyone who wants or needs it.

It's not our place to judge people and I'm sure you weren't being judgemental just bummed out by the atmosphere.

Not much point saying anything to the priest. What can he do about it?

Sounds horrendous. The whole idea of the stamping passports thing.

I don’t think there’s a problem with there being faith schools but I think anyone who wants should be able to send their kids there, whether or not they belong to the religion, if they want them educated in that way.

Going to church doesn’t seem like any way to assess if people are following the actual principles of said religion.

I guess my rationale behind providing feedback would be to make them aware that there are some people (me) who take the “family service” at face value and aren’t just there to get into the school. For example I thought it was really odd that nobody said hello or tried to make us feel welcome when I said it was our first time. But it does feel a bit mean as the people on the door will have been volunteers and probably were feeling a bit harassed by all the parents trying to get their stamps ASAP.

I think I’ll just try out another church, it has been nice to air my feelings on here though and find that lots of you agree with me, I found the whole experience a bit bizarre!

@candlelightflora

That's not the point. The point is no child should be denied entry into a school because the church's historic wealth, most of which was stolen, allows it to have a stronghold on the UK education system. It's absolutely corrupt.

Our town has a school like this and is doubling down on church attendance as an entry criteria and making even more stringent - our church is very against it for some of the reasons you mention above - it's becoming very transactional as we like attending specific child focused services (which are good and we have been going since my children were born) but are now having to go to ones less suitable as well just to get the tick. Along with plenty of other year 4 and 5 parents and children.

Oh, and I'd definitely feedback in a roundabout way by asking if there was a more suitable service for a younger child!

Complain to the diocese, not the church itself.

Churches need bums on seats.

They tolerate ~encourage~ this kind of stuff because christianity is in major decline in the UK.

Oh I see what you mean. It’s probably for another thread, but I actually agree with you that church attendance shouldn’t be a prerequisite for getting a place at a school (although I’m not opposed to faith schools in general).

You’ll have to take my word for it though that these particular parents really do have other local state options, they’re not being forced to attend church or else their child won’t get a place at any decent local school. I appreciate that may not be the case everywhere.

I guess I can see this angle, but I suppose it’s up to the church how they use this captive audience.

For example my last church did a lot of outreach work, they had a food bank donation point in the church and children were encouraged to bring a donation every week (but it wasn’t monitored or expected), they ran a homeless shelter/soup kitchen in the winter months and people could volunteer for shifts. Plus the services were family friendly and the children genuinely enjoyed them and wanted to be there (or at least my DD did). So some people - who perhaps did only start going to church because they wanted to get their child into the school - ended up staying because they felt part of the wider church community. And the whole thing felt like more of a force for good I suppose, and less cynical/transactional.

This is a very diplomatic approach, I like it!

Everything you have written though, is a reflection of the people that are playing the system. People, it seems that do not even have the manners to pretend they are interested in attending Church.
That isn't the fault of the Church, it is the fault of the people behaving like that.

If you want to feedback that you were disappointed at the service you could, but there was a thread on here a couple of days ago saying how little that poster got out of what was described as "dumbing down".

Your most sensible next step would be to try other churches near you, until you find a Church that fits what you are looking for. Sometimes this takes a while. Many Churches don't have the same presbyter taking the service each week, so you might need to visit a few times. Some have Sunday School / Junior Church groups some weeks but not all, or at some services but not all.
If you want a particular style of worship, then try different Churches until you find what suits you. I don't think the Church is suddenly going to change its style of worship because of 'feedback' from one person who went to one service, and judged so many of the congregation there which seems to be your main dissatisfaction with the service.