Secondary schools

[Jourdain11]

My DD10 is in Year 6 and came home from school in a state last week because the deputy head had been using "when you go to secondary next year" as a way of indicating things that won't be tolerated (forgetting items, not finishing work in the allotted time, etc.).

She has had a fair number of issues to deal with and gets anxious about school generally. I knew or suspected she was worried about the social side of secondary school (already!) but now she's getting in a stew over the academic/organisational elements too.

Obviously at present we have no idea of where she will be going... And it's a way off. But has anyone else had the experience of a child who was very worried about the prospect of moving up and do you have any tips on what might help to prepare?

I am fully prepared to be told that I'm unreasonable to be worrying about it this far in advance! I feel like it could go two ways: either she'll flourish and become much happier, or she'll really struggle. And I want to avoid the latter!

if she's in year 6 high school isn't really that far off only 9 months away as I'm assuming she'll start year 7 this September and you will find out her high school place this March. high school is a big change and they are much stricter about being organised and homework etc. I do think it's awful the way they frighten anxious kids with these comments. I suggest you start helping her prepare now by giving her responsibility to make sure her homework is complete and submitted without prompting from you and packing her own school bag and making sure she has stationery herself etc. Also is she able to walk home from school herself to give her that little bit of independence?. My dd was anxious about starting high school but things all went well and she now much prefers high school to primary.

It really shouldn't be used in a threatening way but it is important for children to be prepared that there'll be an expectation for them to take responsibility for themselves.
At primary, some children get their homework, PE kit, uniform, pencil cases, homework diaries, lunch etc dropped off all the time and the office staff get these things to them. That just won't happen in secondary and forgetting them will have consequences so it's good to start preparing your DD now so she doesn't get anxious nearer the time.

Children in Year 6 in England have not got much more than 100 days of primary school left. It's not far off at all! You should definitely look towards getting her prepared by getting her to take some more responsibility for getting herself ready for school and telling her what will be expected of her at secondary school. I don't think the school are doing anything wrong at all. It's very true that many things won't be tolerated at many high schools so it's only right they are warned about it now.

Thank you for that, it's good to hear how your daughter is getting on well!

She's actually pretty good in terms of organising herself and remembering things. I rarely remind her what she needs to pack or to do her homework, she just tends to get it sorted out. So I'm not sure why this aspect is worrying her so much!

She had quite severe OCD and when she's not coping well, she can get very hung up on aspects of her work. Checking and checking and checking her work, crossing things out and re-writing again and again, generally getting herself into an awful state to the point where she'll have a massive panic attack. There have been occasions where she's bolted out of the classroom or started hitting herself - she gets really distressed. And when this happens, it's obviously impacting her ability to finish work on time. The problem is that telling her to hurry up has the worst effect!

The Deputy Head was telling them about how they'll get sanctions at secondary even if their pencil isn't sharpened properly or if they don't finish their work in a lesson, and that they'll get detention for 2 sanctions in a day. So poor DD has got it in her head that she'll be in detention every single day!

“Obviously at present we have no idea of where she will be going..”

Why obviously? Surely you’ve already made your applications and must have an idea of whether they generally admit from your distance? So rather than no idea, you must have some idea?

You say you suspect she has fears… don’t suspect, talk to her! Find out specifically what they are, and then you can chat about how schools manage that. Even if you don’t know which of a small number of schools she’s going to, your Y6 teacher will know the transition plan for each.

My daughter was worried about getting lost, and specifically about that leading to late arrival and a detention.

She didn’t lose that worry completely until she started. But, it became a minor niggle when she was told that she would have a map, that in the first week they post teachers in corridors to help, that most of her classes would be with the same people so she’d be moving with a group to follow, that day 1 is only Y7 so there’d be no big kids in the way, and that as a policy her school didn’t penalise lateness to lessons in the first half term.

A friend’s printed the school map off the internet and turned it into a board game, with different points in each classroom for first to “arrive”. It wasn’t to memorise routes, just to make the map familiar and “moving” associated with fun.

As a secondary school teacher I can say that some things that are tolerated at primary school are not tolerated in secondary school. The biggest shock to pupils is that homework has to be done and if it isn't there are sanctions. Aldo pupils struggle with organisation. This is probably due to the fact that there is far more movement. You can get your child ready for this in a supportive way. Even though y7 feels like they are all grown up, after 20 plus years of teaching I believe the pupils still need guidsnce re homework and making they have their equipment etc. Secondary school will bring challenges and great opportunities, both in learning and socialising. If it is pitched like this then hopefully it will be less stressful. Also many secondary schools pit in an induction day for y6 pupils. It's vital your child attends this. If it's not something that is on offer,perhaps in the summer term you coukd contact the secondary school and see if you abd your child could have a mini tour,they may be able to organise for you to have a chat with some year 7s. Good luck.

Your DD needs some kind of help, sooner rather than later.

“There have been occasions where she's bolted out of the classroom or started hitting herself”

Poor little thing. Ask your preferred secondaries how they manage that now.

At my kids’ school, they have some bolters, and they know they can bolt to “Base”, where student support look their timetable up to check where they’ve run from (if too stressed to say) then phone through to the classroom and tell the teacher the child is safe - then they chill there.

Find out, and reassure her with facts.

Some teachers and schools forget that children are not all the same and tend to only cater for the disruptive, unmotivated ones. This approach can be really damaging for children who have anxiety/ perfectionism/ OCD etc. what they actually need is reassurance and not frightening out of their wits before they even get there!

I would just be matter of fact with her:

'I'll get a detention if I don't finish my work!'
' Then you'll have to make sure you finish your work. Teachers aren't meanies who give more work than children can do. They'll give an amount that's possible for you to do in the lesson. Get on with the work and don't sit and chat and you'll get it all done.'

'I'll get a detention if I forget my PE kit!'
'But you'll get a timetable telling you what lessons you have every day. We'll check it every night and make sure you have all the equipment you need for the next day.'

Does she have an EHCP, and did you speak to the SENCO when making your choices?
Actually I’m guessing no EHCP because they are high priority in school allocation and you would know where she was going.

Your OP sounded like she was a bit more of a worrier than average - but your later posts - severe OCD and panic attacks - are much more serious. You need a specific plan in place for her transition as soon as you get your place allocation this term. I would also ask current school about starting EHCP process.

When you made your school choices, did you talk to the SENCO at the schools? If not… Are you likely to have a choice once the allocations come back? (I.e. you’ll get one allocated, but do some of your other choices tend to have spaces?) If so I’d be getting onto the SENCO now to find out how they would typically support her. You may change your mind about the best school for her.

“Obviously at present we have no idea of where she will be going..”

Why obviously? Surely you’ve already made your applications and must have an idea of whether they generally admit from your distance? So rather than no idea, you must have some idea?

Yes, we've made the applications but the schools are in quite different areas and admissions criteria are varied, so it's a bit all up in the air.

We have an ehcp here and still don't find out till mid February.

Sorry, I didn't read your second post before I answered.

My kids aren't hugely academic and don't always get work finished. They never get detentions when they've got on and been trying to do work. They've got detentions when they've refused to try or been chatting instead of working, or wasting time sharpening pencils etc.

If the teacher sees her working she's unlikely to get penalised if she doesn't finish. Plus I'm sure information about her struggles will be passed from the primary to the secondary before she starts.

DD started Secondary in September. Its quite a strict school... but they don't set out to make the kids fail to meet the expectations. Like in the first week, some of the girls muddled up their PE kits. They helped them sort it out, and have spare kit to borrow if its just one or two list bits. Initial response to homework not being completed it a text to parents, and checking they knew how to lose the appropriate apps. Its repeated non compliance that gets detentions. The teachers listened to any problems... last week DD got a new seat on the seating plan when the teacher found out the boy she was sitting next too was making fun of her. Its a very supportive environment... as long as the pupils try their best.

Also in the second half of summer term (after SATs are out of the way) there will be transition days. These can alleviate a lot of worries.

Thanks for the replies... No EHCP, but we did speak to the SENCO at the three schools she prefers. The problem is that I'm not certain she'll get a place at any of them. We're in London, so it's not so straightforward, especially since the closest schools are in a different Borough to the one we live in/where the primary is.

A lot of her class mates will go to a particular Academy... but when we went to the Open Day she hated it and nothing I saw or have heard leads me to think it would be a good fit for her. So we didn't even list that one.

I’m sure different secondary schools have different systems in place but at DC’s school it’s like this…

Verbal warnings are given for minor infractions and basically have no consequences.

Written warnings are given for more serious infractions, such as homework not done / forgotten.

A detention is given if a student gets 4 written warnings in a week or two written warnings in a single lesson.

Also, if a student gets 3 written warnings in a lesson it is a removal from the lesson, and if they manage to get 4 written warnings in a lesson (gets a fourth before another teacher comes to escort them out) it is isolation the following day.

Now, where it gets tricky is that different teachers have different standards and reasons for giving written warnings. One teacher apparently often gives the reason of “low-level disruption” which I find hilarious, albeit my DC has never received a written warning. This teacher even gave a student a written warning for “walking funny” and gives out ridiculous amounts of written warnings each lesson.

We don’t get early confirmation in our area, but we do know that with an EHCP and a specific first choice based with good read on that EHCP, you’re in the priority group for allocation.

It’s a moot point if there’s no EHCP - but I’d still recommend OP talks to current school about whether she should have one. With a history of OCD and panic attacks, I think her daughter will benefit from one.

It is a moot point, unfortunately, but I really wish we'd been more proactive from pov of the EHCP. Her first choice is the one she prefees about 10x over any of the others, and I feel that it would be a really good fit for her. But she's very unlikely to get a place because it's out of area and partially selective.

I have no idea if an EHCP gives you priority for in-year moves, but I’d be finding out as another reason to get the process kicked off asap. If she starts in one school and a place becomes available in a school that’s a better fit later on, if there’s anyway to be higher up the list, you need to grab it.

Speak to the secondary when you know which one. The Senco should be able to support.

My DD gets very anxious. She went to the summer school before starting to help ease into it. I also spoke to Senco who was fab - she said they have a more nurturing tutor group for children that need that.

I was also worried about starting secondary as she is quite young for her age - she made a great group of friends, many of them I think have their own quirks like her.

She has been getting a bit worried recently and she has a pass so she can go to the support room if needed, Senco has said she can come and see her any time.

Honestly I'm really happy with support she has been getting and it's been really positive.

PM me if you want . I just posted below but my daughters school is a partially selective one. Not sure if it's the same - outer south London.

RandomPerson42

Not sure why you find the term ‘low level disruption’ , ‘hilarious.’ It’s a perfectly normal term in education that most teachers will use every single day of their teaching career. It means chatting, calling out etc. It’s the kind of behaviour that massively impacts on the learning of the whole class but in each individual child’s case does not seem particularly serious. And if you’ve ever seen a child sent out of a room or returning to a room while spinning around or kicking their legs in the air you would know how disruptive a child who is ‘walking funny’ can be.

Jourdain11

I really wouldn’t worry, secondary teachers work out very quickly which children are lazy and can’t be bothered to bring the right equipment (while always having their phone and headphones) or do their work and which children are genuinely worried and doing their best.

As soon as you know which school get in touch with the senco outlining her needs and what support she gets at school at present. They should be able to arrange things to help the transition - Ds and a small group of children did a whole half term of weekly visits when they where in year 6 because they needed the extra time to prepare.

make sure she has somewhere to go to if she needs to leave class - learning support department or similar.

We're starting to prepare, as I know dd will be a mess over the summer. All her friends will be going to other schools. Ive begun drip feeding the changes in expectation. Just dropping them into conversations nothing intense, most of the questions come from her. We're pretty sure which high school she will get a place, so ive been taking her for walks around the area, as the size of the building can be intimidating and walking home won't feel so scary. She's been talking to my friend's daughter who is in Year 7 and currently at the school. She went to the open evening and that has really helped as she got a feel of what it would be like. So far she seems positive and excited, a bit sad to be leaving primary but really up for the challenge. Im sure the visits to the school after sats will help too. It is scary but like pp have said it is 9 months away. I think mentally prepare them is important.