To insist on science GCSEs

[Hippolyte]

DD is yr 9. She's a bright all rounder on paper but no real interest in STEM. She is keen to ditch a science for GCSE so that she can carry on with more of the humanities subjects that she enjoys. This would leave her with 2 sciences (which ones to be decided) and an extra humanity that she will probably get a higher grade for. I think she should do the 3 just because I don't want her to rule things out too early but aibu? Will this impact on university entrance at all ? She's obviously thinking arts rather than science degree at the moment. Thank you all!

@NeedToChangeName “I wish people would say which country they're in

I don't understand the double/ triple science model”

This is a U.K. based website, and the OP is talking about GCSEs where options are taken in Y9. So she’s not in Scotland. I can’t guarantee she’s not outside of England / Wales / NI, but if she is (and I’ll eat my hat if so!) she’d be in a country following the U.K.-except Scotland model anyway. I don’t think a poster in the U.K. on a U.K. website needs to state their country!

I do agree with you about following one’s own interests though!

This thread sums up everything I struggled with about the English Science curriculum!

Scottish trained teacher, worked in England and internationally so have jumped around all the curricula over the last 25 years.

So.

Most common GCSE is called double award but is all 3 science disciplines studied to a moderate level and results in 2 GCSE grades based on average of all 3 subjects.

Triple award GCSE usually offered to only the more academic students and is significantly more challenging. 3 full separate GCSE grades.

What the OP is describing is unusual in England for GCSE but the exam boards do allow. It's effectively doing the academic level of triple award but only in 1 or 2 chosen sciences. This is good if the student has a clear preference but does limit options for further study at A level. And most importantly - it's harder than doing double award in all 3 as the individual courses go to greater depth. So it's harder to get the higher grades than it would be with double award.

In Scotland this would be normal. The sciences are discrete at the equivalent of GCSE level and it's normal to choose 1 or 2. 3 is only for those planning for medicine or similar and some schools won't even timetable it.

My school offered the 3 separate sciences at GCSE or combined science. The combined science option was aimed at the kids who struggled with science. I loathed physics, so took biology and chemistry. Went on to study both for A-level and became a dentist.

I'd encourage dropping one and doing something she's more keen on. It's very unlikely to make any difference to her life chances and even if it does, she can take another later.

I only did Biology GCSE at school and I later (in my 30s) did Chemistry, but only because I needed a 5th GCSE to get into university, I could have done any subject.

I gave a similar opinion on something related earlier but ultimately OO if she isn't going to use it at A level, degree or career then there's no harm whatsoever, once you get to the applying for uni stage, and into your career, noone cares about GCSEs as long as your A levels are up to scratch for the course you want.

As a general perspective as a previous employer, recruiter and obviously employee, noone cares about GCSE results once you've moved onto A levels (assuming you pass!), A degree or after a couple of years of work. Hell, even a degree is often overlooked for on the job experience.

I have a lot of sympathy for doing triple science rather than more humanities subjects. The science is just more useful unless she knows what she wants to do and definitely won't be using any science.

I was very much an all rounder and did what was then three separate science subjects. I dropped two sciences at A level and still regret that even though I went on to do something non science related. I dropped them only because the teaching was rubbish and not because I didn't think they were more useful.

Yes, ultimately it should be up to her, but in your position I would be asking her to think ahead to life beyond education and what would always be useful to her. The answer may well not be all the sciences, but at least you know she has thought it through.

As a science teacher I would encourage her to choose what she wants to do and what she finds the most interesting.

Yes Science is a good subject to have but if you don’t enjoy it then there’s no point.

It’s better than she gets a decent grade in something she does enjoy and finds interesting than something she doesn’t.
For future options it’s probably better to get a 7/8/9 in History than a 2/3 in science.

Does she have an idea of what she wants to do when she’s older?

This is the downside of choosing your options in year 9 as I don’t think it’s enough time to decide what subjects you want to pursue.

I teach Physics hence user name.

My Dd is in year 10 and she picked combined in favour of Health and Social. Of course I was disappointed but it's her choice and her that has to live it.

DC was in one of the top independents in the U.K. It was absolutely possible to drop a whole science.m there and still is. It meant DC could swap Chemistry for History - so ended up doing 10 GCSEs in Maths, Eng Lang, Eng Lit, Biology, Physics, Geography, History, French, Spanish, Music. Then did A-levels in Geography, Economics, French (plus an EPQ). Now at Oxford. No Chemistry GCSE needed!

Is this a private school? As a science teacher in a state school I've always been under the impression that the "rules" are that all 3 sciences are compulsory to GCSE, either has double award or triple science. Even very low ability students have studied all 3 as entry level. We've looked in the past at entering students coming in from different countries etc for just one or two of the triple science GCSEs and been told it's not possible

My dd did 2 sciences at GCSE then a science at A-level. I would let her pick 2 humanities. I think that many kids know what kind of subjects they like and why not do 2 humanities ? My dd did 2 sciences and 2 humanities for GCSE and no regrets.

Many schools that do IGCSE allow them to drop a whole science, rather than do the double science award. Independent schools can do what they like really. As long as they're replacing a science with another traditional academic subject - no issue. Not everyone wants to do STEM subjects at uni!

I really dislike the opinion that everyone is the same. Of course we need students to do STEM subjects but in order to have a diverse society & a functioning economy we need to encourage other subjects too. Arts, humanities, languages etc etc. We are not all the same and we should celebrate that.

Yes independent school. Thanks everyone for your comments, really appreciated.

I don’t think it’s particularly relevant what people did or didn’t do in the past, I’d get some current advice from school about whether it will limit her choices later on. Someone up thread suggested she could do a level physics without physics gcse which given the content of a level physics would be nigh on impossible! I don’t think people are saying stem subjects are more important but it’s true that some subjects you can pick up at a level and beyond with transferable skills and some you can’t. Eg history you could probably pick up with transferable skills from English. Some subjects are only available at a level anyway. I do think she will be limiting herself by dropping one completely but it may be that it’s no problem to do that if sure of what she wants to do next

Yes, YABU.

Just to throw in- our local secondary lets students do two of the separate science gcses rather than offering double award, rare but it does happen. It’s almost always chem and physics that they do not biology. I think it’s all shades of wrong but there you go.

That’s a state school. The local private school has had pupils who only do one science (biology) for GCSE but they’re usually overseas students.

Yes,science is compulsory. She'll either do combined science which incorporates all 3 sciences but just 2 exams (4 papers 1 and 2) and will allow her space to pick an additional humanities subject, or triple science which involves studying all 3 subjects in greater depth and will have 3 exams (6 papers 1 and 2). It will not harm her chances of getting into a good uni at all if she just does combined science. Trust her judgement on this and let her decide for herself. GCSEs are stressful for them so let her pick subjects that she will readily apply herself to and be happier.

@Ilovegardens the thread has long since clarified that it’s not Dual / Double / Combined science - but actually 2 separate sciences. It’s not clear though cos OP name changed so See All doesn’t show the clarification quickly!

My daughter will graduate from medical school this year.

She took two science GCSEs. Then two science A levels plus drama.

No problems at all with applications. For a lot of careers, two sciences at GCSE are just fine.

That is not what the OP has said. The sciences are separate. The daughter wants to pick two of them. Not combined, not three sciences but awarded two GCSEs. Two separate GCSEs in only two sciences. That’s what I did too.

Let her pick what she wants to do…….

If the choice is 3 separate rather than 2 separate, rather than 3 separate or the combined one, I would say do three. I was an all rounder who didn't end up going into STEM but did do triple, although at my school it didn't replace another option. But yes, I think entirely cutting out one of the sciences age 14 is a bad idea - plenty of students in my year only really got to know what they did and didn't enjoy subject-wise and/or science-wise during the GCSE years.

It’s disgusting that some schools don’t offer triple science. It strongly disadvantages STEM oriented students, and part of a race to the lowest possible standards. It’s cruel to make semiliterate children struggle with English Literature GSCE when they need fundamental skills like reading manuals and writing letters.