To insist on science GCSEs

[Hippolyte]

DD is yr 9. She's a bright all rounder on paper but no real interest in STEM. She is keen to ditch a science for GCSE so that she can carry on with more of the humanities subjects that she enjoys. This would leave her with 2 sciences (which ones to be decided) and an extra humanity that she will probably get a higher grade for. I think she should do the 3 just because I don't want her to rule things out too early but aibu? Will this impact on university entrance at all ? She's obviously thinking arts rather than science degree at the moment. Thank you all!

Combined isn’t on offer, though, is it?

I’m a former science teacher. There’s no reason at all to do all three sciences if it means giving up a subject she enjoys. Many schools do not offer triple science at all so universities don’t require it for courses. It’s only beneficial if you’re taking A Levels because there’s less content to bridge the gap. If she doesn’t intend to take all three sciences at A Level then there’s no reason to take all three at GCSE. I’m obviously a science advocate but nope, no reason to do this. It is odd that the school are letting her take two full GCSEs though instead of double award across them - a general base in the three is important for life so I think that was ill-advised and I assume it’s been done because the school want to get parents like you to panic and force their kids to take triple so their stats look good on the number of students who choose triple.

Have you asked her school what their Y12 policy is for picking up the dropped science again? I would imagine that if she had two 8s in the other sciences and a parent committed to supported a “hot house” Y12 (e.g. getting a tutor) they’d let her pick it.

To all the people saying you can’t sit separate sciences. This is not correct. My DDs school also offers all 3 individually and not combined. She is actually doing physics and biology. The school encourages them all to do all 3 but she was adamant not to and I supported her - she isn’t strong at science and is better served getting a good grade in something else than scraping a pass in Chemistry. If able to secure good grades Biology / Chemistry is a better combo.

Thanks so much that's a really interesting perspective, I had wondered about the reasoning. Much appreciated

For every single child?

Double science is still all three, just to a lesser depth than triple (separate).

I did science GCSE because we had too. I had zero interest. It was moduler coursework back then so I probably got a better grade than if it had been a final exam like now. I got D. Probably would have got F if it was down to a final exam.
I simply didn't want to be in the lessons. One module I ignored the teacher and worked on an art project I was doing instead. It was quite frankly a waste of my time and the teachers time.
I so wish I could have had the opportunity to do more art subjects or humanities subject (we could only do one art, one humanities).
Let her do the subjects she wants.

Double what? Physics and chemistry? Biology and physics? Etc? What did he drop?

There is not a huge amount of difference between the combined and Triple content. There is some but not that vast you could never learn it.

You can even get onto any Science A level with combined Science.

Not in my world. Perhaps it’s a matter of terminology, but double science means two separate sciences to me, not three but to a lesser extent.

@womanontheedge2022 now you’ve namechanged, I thought I recognised the name and had replied to a post of yours - in 2022, funnily enough 🤣
You said then - in a different context - that she already had a set idea of what she was interested in doing.
I think this comes down to some parents - especially egged on by super selective! - over valuing STEM on principle.

“Oh but how can you know at 14 that you definitely want to be a doctor, shouldn’t you take an extra art subject and not restrict yourself too soon?” said no private school parent ever 🤣

Don't see the point in making her sacrifice a gcse she wants to take in order to do three sciences because YOU think she is narrowing her options - what options? Is she suddenly going to consider going in to medicine or other science based career that requires it? Does doing the double science rather than the triple actually prevent her from taking science as an A level if she should suddenly decide that's the direction she wanted to go in? It would not.

Combined is 6 exams of 1h15 two grades given as an average of all 6.
Triple ( Separates) 6 x 1h45 Three grades awarded Biology paper 1 and paper 2 only affect Biology and so on.

You can, but it is unusual, not many schools would permit it though.

It is a matter of terminology @Feelallright but it’s the terminology used by GCSE exam boards themselves!
“Double” award - 6 assessments, 2 each for Physics, Chemistry and Biology.

Not what is offered at OP’s school - but definitely common terminology used by parents with students this age where the vast majority are at schools offering Double /Dual /Combined.

You are right though OP she should do all three so as not to rule anything out, she is only 13/14 way too soon to make life altering choices!

Any subject choices are potentially 'life altering'. If she is made to do the third science rather than a humanity she actually wants to do, then that could stop her from doing a university course or career involving that humanities subjin the future. Why on earth would dropping one out of 3 sciences be more life altering than dropping any other subject? Particularly for a child who has no interest in STEM!

That's really odd - to not offer the dual award instead of 2 of the three.
I would look closely at the syllabus for each of them - Biology is huge and very challenging- Chemistry and Physics I think is a lot more manageable and I'd also look at the exam papers -
Biology requires a lot more applying knowledge and I think is tricky, Chem and Physics are a lot more applied and straightforward - well that's my twos experience anyway!
There is also a lot of cross over from Chemistry and Geography so she's is doing Geography then Chemistry makes sense and then one of Physics or Biology. If she wants to any of the ologies at a level - psychology / sociology then some of the Biology content is really useful. Unless she loves or wants to do engineering type things then I am not sure what else not studying Physics will impacts.

That said if she did chose to study engineering at Uni a lot of Unis do foundation years for undergrads without a level maths or physics so there are lots of ways round if she does choose the arts and then science - no door seems to be closed just a slightly longer route

It tends to be combined thats more in uae these days in my experience but double yes means the same thing.

I was made to take options subjects I didn't want to. I was made to choose O levels I didn't want to do. I was unhappy. I dropped out of college & got a job because I couldn't stand being taught subjects I had no interest in, just to please other people.

I still remember the fight I had with my parents over 30 years ago when I told them I was dropping physics to take both history and geography. My mother cried a lot and my father didn't speak to me for six weeks.

Back then it was the child who handed in the paper, so I submitted my subject choices not theirs - they were hardly controversial except the two sciences instead of three.

Back then I was definitely bloody minded enough to have refused to write anything on the exam paper for a subject I was forced to take and fail it on purpose, but luckily I got As in history and geography instead of failing physics.

@knackeredmu it’s not odd, cos it’s a few paying super selective - they won’t want the lowly Dual/Double/Combined looking bad in their options booklet 🤣 Even though it’s a great slightly more generalist option for many kids.

“There is also a lot of cross over from Chemistry and Geography so she's is doing Geography then Chemistry makes sense”

That makes sense for gaming the system, I definitely agree - but if OP’s concern is specialising too early, she should “insist” on not doing both!

I wish people would say which country they're in

I don't understand the double/ triple science model, but as a general rule, I would encourage children to study what they're good at and what interests them, rather than directing them towards certain courses

These kids will spend a lot of their life working, and it's important they enjoy what they do

I was steered down a certain route and hated it for 20 years

Then changed direction and love what I do now. Colleagues are starting to talk about retiring. I feel sorry for them. I love what I do and know I'm good at it. I have no desire to step down

You’re welcome - good luck with it all. There’s a huge amount of ignorance on this thread so it’ll probably descend into chaos quite quickly.

Keep in mind you can take GCSEs and A Levels privately at any age for a few hundred pounds. It really isn’t the life-altering decision it’s made out to be. My DH did an engineering degree with double award science and then became a science teacher. He’s now a maths teacher and has got an offer for graduate entry medicine without any A Levels in biology or chemistry because he’s taught both of them and university just assessed his knowledge. People think that doors shut and lock but they don’t.

I'm a STEM person.
I think she should take 2 GCSEs in the science subjects that interest her the most (ideally Chemistry plus one other, but not essential), and use the spare option to do something she loves.
If she changes her mind, and desperately needs the missing science, there are ways to achieve it, and she will have the motivation for it.
A third of her timetable is likely to be science if she takes all 3. That is a lot of science if it's not where your current passions lie.