To be upset about my mum’s attitude to the NHS?

[Beautifulblues]

She’s turning 64 this year and so has benefited from the NHS all of her life.

She came from a fairly poor background, council house, working class, she had to leave school at 16 to get a job as they needed to contribute to the household. She shared a bedroom with her siblings until she was 14, very little in the way of luxuries.

Despite all of that she’s now a staunch conservative and she has said several times recently that she believes the NHS is no longer fit for purpose and we should be looking towards a health insurance system like other countries (she referenced France here but I have no idea of their healthcare system). I’m feeling very angry about it…she’s benefitted this long but doesn’t want me or her 4 year old grandson to benefit from the wonderful NHS as he gets older.

Average health spend per person in EU14 (EU members prior to 2004) between 2010-2019 - £ 3655.

Average spend in UK was £3055.

Spending did not keep pace with demand.

Demand is greater because of ageing population, Covid and multiple failures in social care.

twitter.com/bbcrosatkins/status/1611260116069744641?s=46&t=KpCsguMUmTdsITtakeXJMw

You can't underfund a service for a decade (and resist long term workforce planning) and then complain the service doesn't function as you'd like it to.

If changes are needed that needs to be part of a national discussion.

In the meantime I'd like the Government to resolve existing issues so people can know an ambulance is coming, that A&E will not be a war zone and patients can be discharged in a timely fashion.

This /appalling stories on here recently about how people are (not ) treated in hospital and by GPS.

AIBU - most people - yes. Ok well she's racist as well. Way to drip feed OP as this thread isn't going your way.

“we should be looking towards a health insurance system like other countries (she referenced France here but I have no idea of their healthcare system).”

How can you be upset by your mum’s views when you don’t even understand what she’s proposing?

I work in a European role for a French company, my colleagues are from all over Europe. None of them is envious of our NHS. They’ve grown up with a system that works and they’re happy with what they pay for it. Sure, on an individual level, free is good! But they do not see the NHS as “the envy of the world”.

Do you even know what the population has been in the period of your mum’s life? Or the demographics? Or the extension of life expectancy? The scope of the NHS on its creation is vastly different to what it has to deliver now.

You can research all that and still have a different opinion than your mum of course - but I don’t think you’ve any business being “upset” with her when you’re ill informed

I think YABU because the French insurance system puts some of the financial burden on employers - health insurance is a compulsory part of a package. It's effectively ring fenced money. Every time the government are expected to spend Inthe NHS they spend the money on something else. I find it very suspicious that the Tories could afford so much money for things that didn't work during COVID and there was so little for the NHS. And I would rather an insurance scheme than a bloody revolution.

This. We're a mixed-race East Asian family and there are good subsidised healthcare in some of the countries in our neck of the woods that work far, far better than the NHS. You pay for insurance and then again for treatment, but very, very minimal costs. Quality of care is better, it's easier to get appointments, staffing levels are high....the NHS needs to desperately be reformed.

She's not wrong though, is she? The NHS is not fit for purpose and hasn't been for decades. It may have suited the 1960s/1970s but it is not suitable for modern day. No amount of money fed into it will make it better because it is completely and utterly broken.

We absolutely need a new system. It amazes me that anyone thinks handing out more money to nurses will actually change anything - it won't.

Thing is though your mum is not wrong - its not fit for purpose, it is completely broken and something is going to have to change.

Labour increased spending on the NHS by many billions when in power and that put lots of plasters on it. Even the Tories have increased spending real terms. Its not working though.

Change is needed.

I don't believe the present Govt want a privatised system, let alone the very complex French one, i mean who could afford that? plus no insurer would cover pre existing or chronic.

We'd need a completely new & huge medical insurance industry & as we have chronic labour shortages, where would the staff come from to run it, along side existing insurance industries.

What i think they want is a return to pre NHS where you died if you couldn't get treatment (as is happening and accepted by the public) and/or charity and insurance for those that could pay.

If you couldn't pay, the Government would just say you spend too much at Costa and Avocado's.

Remember the Tories have been in power for 13 years and have not looked at an alternative health system, not once nor are they planning too, its just remove it.. slowly.

No they have not, if by real terms you mean accounting for inflation and demand/ageing population.

In simple cash terms yes.

"Remember the Tories have been in power for 13 years and have not looked at an alternative health system, not once nor are they planning too, its just remove it.. slowly."

Well they certainly couldn't reform it 13 years ago - patient satisfaction was at its highest ever levels, ambulances were meeting call out targets, waiting lists were low.

13 years later and they've got people wanting to change the system. Worked out pretty well I'd say.

We are short staffed because it's more lucrative to work for an agency, rather than work for the nationally set NHS pay bands.

If trusts were allowed to vary the pay according to need, more staff would become permanently employed.

As it stands, there are increasing numbers of patients with long term conditions who don't look after themselves and rely on a dwindling number of medical staff to look after them.

It's been like that in every department I've worked in - without the bonus of course!

I agree with this. DH and I lived in a small French village, population less than 2000, and there were 5 doctors surgeries. (Just the one doctor at each one). Most people stuck with the same doctor's surgery that had treated their parents and grandparents.

Everyone I know who works, or has worked for the NHS, in many different capacities from consultant to admin, has said there is a shocking amount of waste, and too many managers.
The trouble is, the NHS is such a sacred cow, no govt.of whatever colour has ever dared to tackle it properly, root and branch.

Might dd that I do think we need to start charging small amounts at the point of use. Other countries whose health services are often praised as so much better than ours, do this. For starters Sweden - popularly supposed to be a socialist Utopia - does.

"We are short staffed because it's more lucrative to work for an agency, rather than work for the nationally set NHS pay bands."

The answer is bettering current terms and conditions rather then spending £3 billion per annum on agency staff - crucially we'd be more likely to retain existing experienced staff and recruit new ones. We went in to the pandemic with 42,000 nursing vacancies and now have 47,000.

Real terms will take into account inflation.

We used to have the most efficient healthcare system in the world, the problem is the government defunding and privatising parts of it all the time.

This.

You are free to not like her opinion, but it feels a bit unreasonable to take it so personally.

My DD currently works in the NHS, as did my Mum, neither said that.
The NHS consistently scores well on efficiency, i don't know how anyone thinks a system where you pay up front but then claim back is somehow going to be more efficient?

I do agree on charging though & and on paying for missed appointments (with the usually exemptions)

Yes Sweden does, it doesn't put people off, i lived there.

Sounds like she has her head screwed on more than you.

Those of us who have seen the nhs and all it’s flaws know that it’s dying. It’s not the people, it’s the structure. Too many 6 digit salaries and not enough medical staff.

The france system is competative, the customer has choice. People go where the get service. Poor services don’t survive.

If it's going to be saved, it needs reforming. No good just keep throwing money down a black hole when nothing is improving.

"Real terms will take into account inflation."

Is that inflation figures from early 2022? Or does it cover the vast rise in inflation over the course of last year?

IFS in 2019 said "But they said that increases of at least 4% a year on average are needed in order to meet the NHS’s needs and see any improvement in its services."

fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/

Average increases have been 1.1 in 2011 rising to 2.2% in 2015.

Op, it's quite pathetic to carry on like your mother owes you a political opinion to reflect your own.