To think violence between adults in a family is never okay?

[BradfordGirl]

I do not think they are nuances or good reasons for violence between adults in a family. It is always wrong.

I always think of those little scenes in Gavin and Stacey with smithy and his sister 😃.
Normal in some dysfunctional families, but not acceptable at all!

My lovely, kind, gentle DH once pushed his brother hard enough on the chest that his brother fell on a sofa. His brother was being a mouthy, shouty, abusive arse, wouldn't get out of the way and wouldn't stop shouting in DH's face.

Is my DH violent and abusive? His brother would say he was.

@Jaffacakeorisitabiscuit I am not talking about labelling anyone as abusive.
I am saying we need to recognise violence. And someone can be lovely and generally gentle, and still be violent on one occasion.

Of course it's not acceptable or 'normal'. But things are rarely black and white and tbh I would be cautious of anything you read in the media including things about H&M. You're only getting one biased version of events that's being purposely sensationalised.

@Goodgrief82 You go ahead and take legal advice from mumsnetters if you want. I will continue to say in posts like that one that people should take expert advice rather than do what mumsnetters think they should do.

@GooglyEyeballs I do not care about the Royal Family. I do care that many people are saying violence between family members is acceptable and even giving some quite alarming examples in their own family and saying it is no big deal.
We should not be arguing family violence is acceptable.

So my DH is violent then. The decades of kindness, gentleness and generally being a good and decent man are dismissed because of an incident, not of his making, where he was what? Expected to accept having obscenities shouted at him , barred from extricating himself from the situation?

On that occasion he was violent yes.

OP I agree, lots of things are common but shouldn't be. Where I live it's very common to cane your children, with a proper stick. When the occasional article comes out about corporal punishment, you find 90-95% of comments are parents defending caning. And the cycle continues. It makes me sick. And that royal thread filled with people defending violence is just awful.

It's a TAAT about a thread in The Royal Family topic, where people are pointing out that the event is described by someone known to be an unreliable narrator and should not therefore be taken at face value.

I get the general comparison, but that's a bit different in my view. School teachers hitting pupils is an abusive one way dynamic against someone physically and socially weaker. Adult siblings physically fighting is at least more equally matched. Not that that is always the case or makes it right, but I think it lessens our moral imperative to intervene as bystanders. Again, I think it'll go away in a few generations as we learn how to be better as a society, and learn positive communication strategies.

Of course I agree, but I cannot wholly say I think a one off grabbing someone and they fall over is the worst thing between two brothers. I actually think the worst thing is lying and spreading rumours about your family repeatedly. Of course with the royal family it’s doing it for profit. Knowing they won’t address it. I think that’s beyond heinous.

Is it a former British colony? They often cane, as caning was introduced by the British and came to be associated with being "civilised".

You have got to be joking. Sally Challenge has years and years of abuse. You really cannot compare her to William.

I'd like to respond to you but I'd be banned from MN.

I am not suggesting I would get in between two adult men fighting.

There are degrees of violence. A one off push or slap does not make someone an abuser or a violent person, but it is still an act of violence.

I am struck though that on the thread where a man posted about his wife pushing him, loads of people were saying she was an abusive person and he needed to leave asap and take his kids with him. But when a man shoves another man hard enough that he falls over, it is suddenly perfectly justifiable and what should be expected.

I take neither approach. An abuser or violent person is someone who displays a pattern of behaviour, not a one off incident. But a one off incident is still violence.

I don't think it's fair to be as sweeping as to say "always wrong"

Usually wrong, fine. Because the real world isn't that tidy. And examples of where it was minor and mended are one part of that.

But the thread wasn't really about condoning violence, was it? It was about why this was a sketchy account from someone who prefers his truth to accuracy

@Rockybooboo I agree. It is a pretty disgusting comparison. Women who murder abusive men are justifiably in fear of their lives. They know he is going to kill her one day. And these women always have a long horrific history of violent physical abuse to show that their belief is evidence based.

Interesting I didn't know that. Yes I am in a former British colony.

What's more, my parents are from a different former British colony and then moved to yet another different former British colony (so 3 countries where caning is common), and they also used a cane. That's an interesting connection. And awful how such a barbaric practice is still normalised across countries and generations.

Well it's never 'OK', but it isn't always entirely horrific and repugnant.

Sometimes it's just a bit unfortunate and pathetic.

Sometimes it's horrific and repugnant.

Pretending that everything that is not 'OK' is therefore all equally immoral is just at best obviously silly and at worst immoral.

@Aprilx thanks, I hadn't seen the Harry and William story when I replied.
Only yesterday I saw a video of a UFC boss slapping his wife a couple of times after she slapped him first. What is going on with people and the need to hit other people?

This.

And no it's never OK. I've been on the receiving end and it's not fun. We've got past it now but I would never condone that behaviour or mock someone for being a victim. I know we're not discussing the royals (well ish) but the slightly 'comedic' details are what give it the ring of truth, not that I would disbelieve it anyway. And it's upsetting rather than funny, to me.

I was one of many children. The boys did fight as children and I had the occasional skirmish with one brother. However once we reached adulthood it would never, ever have happened
My own children physically fought as children but, again, never as adults
None of my siblings nor my children have put a hand on another human, child or adult since their own childhood.
It all sounds so unnecessary, adults usually have the language to deal with their frustrations with close family members. I don't mix with anyone who would be violent within a family or not

Tensions between 2 brothers coming to a head resulting in one falling over and a broken necklace and dog bowl, is not 'OK' but it's not abusive level of violence.

A man hitting a woman is not OK & always abhorrent.

A woman hitting a child is not OK and is child abuse.

Any ongoing pattern of violence is not OK and abuse.

All not OK.
Not all the same.

No, but then not is bullying staff.