To think we cannot afford to support Ukraine anymore

[Saysomething1234]

This may be an unpopular opinion but it is annoying me to no end and NC

We have a littany of issues crying out for funding domestically - NHS broken. Economy going down the drain. Pound down 20% in one year. Public services collapsing, Education system requiring re-investment, high taxes driving talent out. We can keep blaming our politicians but someone needs to prioritise where money goes - and no one is willing to talk about this

Yet we are spending hundreds of billions in supporting Ukraine in a war which has nothing to do with us. Yes we are morally supporting them but is there no amount which will be too much? We are paying both directly (through weapons and aid) and indirectly (through huge energy subsidies - last totalling north of £200bn) - we need to stop this spending, reduce energy prices, stop this craziness

How is this war something we can afford on the basis on principles and why aren't we more aggressively pushing for a negotiated settlement?

We cannot afford this. It sucks for Ukrainians but this is not UK's bill to foot.

AIBU?

It probably takes less time than that

Azov.

House!!!!

@Hont1986 except Ukraine is not populated by nazis. It has some, like most European countries. Russia has many, many more. Should we be invading Russia to liberate them, because tbh Putin’s ideology is much closer to nazism than Zelensky’s? Surely by your own logic you’d be in favour of that.

@Autumnnewname yeah, awkwardly Azov has been financed by the Kremlin for years so it could shout ‘nazi’ at Ukraine. Even more awkwardly, it attracted a fair few neonazi Russians from the likes of the RIM, who have now returned to fight for mother Russia.

The Azov Battalion is not Ukraine - it isn’t even Azov anymore in the way tankies would like it to be.

3/10 must try harder to find a sufficient nazi population to justify this kind of invasion. Pretty sure proportionally we have roughly the same - fuck nazis, and fuck people who would make up a nazi problem to justify butchering civilians like old Vlad has.

www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/peace-and-prosperity/2015/february/02/obama-admits-us-role-in-ukraine-overthrow/

He might have had some help

Ah the russian apologist/bot/sympathiser and the sheep line in one. Those are the go to put downs for fragile minded who just can't handle the fact that not everyone chokes down the western narrative their fed and begs for more.

You know, you'd fit really well into the Russian government with your continued and increasingly desperate attempts to shut down any view that you don't like.

And for the record I'm fully vaxxed, think Assange is a , and that crypto is just a ponzi scheme.

Russia is such a saviour.
Ukraine from nazis. Czechoslovakia from western liberals...

Well folks, we know one poster we can safely just ignore because they went that one step too far with the 'Ukraine didn't even exist...' trope. With that as the starting point, no reason to think that anything else won't also be lies - not even worth engaging as we'll just get more and more fiction in an attempt to obfuscate and confuse.

Could we have nonpartisan sources please? Do you have the full text of what Obama actually said?

Do you really think that the killing would stop if Ukrainians weren't armed? Did you see what those Russian butchers did to unarmed civilians in Bucha?

I mean bless the RPI, they waited a full day before regurgitating Lavrov's talking points.

Obama administration response to Lavrov's claims (via RFE):

In Washington, the Obama administration reacted to Lavrov's statement on February 2 by saying that Russia is pushing a “revisionist narrative of the crisis in Ukraine” that is “deeply troubling, but utterly unconvincing.”

A senior administration official told RFE/RL that Obama’s remarks referred to U.S. efforts to help resolve the crisis in the run-up to a February 21, 2014 deal signed by Yanukovych and what was then Ukraine's opposition.

The agreement, brokered by three EU diplomats, called for the creation of a national unity government, a presidential election by December 2014, and a return to an earlier Ukrainian constitution that would have curtailed Yanukovych’s powers.

The official said the United States worked with Yanukovych's government, Ukraine's opposition, and “other stakeholders to reach an agreement to put Ukraine back on track toward fulfilling the aspirations of the Ukrainian people for democracy, respect for human rights, European integration and long-term economic growth.”

The official said: “This effort included not just the United States but Russian and European government representatives as well."

The attitude to dismiss 30% of the voters who disagree with you as bots/directed by foreigners/idiots is a repeat pattern. this is EXACTLY what has happened to the 52% who voted for brexit

People can have differing opinions. does not invalidate their existence

Quite. Unfortunately for Russia apologists, the exiled former Chief Rabbi of Moscow has some inconvenient observations to share on neo Nazism and the relative positions of Jewish people in Ukraine and Russia.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/30/exiled-chief-rabbi-jews-should-leave-russia-while-they-can-pinchas-goldschmidt-war-ukraine

The bots know best, though.

The attitude to dismiss 30% of the voters who disagree with you as bots/directed by foreigners/idiots is a repeat pattern. this is EXACTLY what has happened to the 52% who voted for brexit

This is not the great argument for listening to cranks that you think it is.

I agree we can't afford it anymore, but we also can't afford letting Russia win. It's cruel country. Did enough damage through the years.

I wonder if the op originated in Russia

"Mr Putin made this decision around Crimea and Ukraine, not because of some grand strategy but essentially because he was caught off-balance by the protests in the Maidan and Yanukovich then fleeing after we had brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine"

You can watch it here:

Even many Ukrainians don’t see the point of standing and fighting and have chosen the option to flee: www.thejc.com/news/news/an-exodus-for-our-times-the-jews-fleeing-ukraine-for-israel-2wiBIo0R1yvriVQHtXJqZe?reloadTime=1672531200010

Are you quite sure that people fleeing the invading Russian forces is a point in your favour here?

I think you're missing the point a bit. It's not precisely that there is a war between Ukraine and Russua only. That's just the diplomatic version to hold a full scale nuclear war off. Actually there is a war/power struggle between Europe (including the UK) and Russia and the battle field is Ukraine. If Europe loses then Russia will invade every European country one by one.

Now you know that, do you understand why we need to send all we've got to Ukraine?

Yes, and I've shared his administration's statement about that interview including who 'we' referred to.

It's no kind of smoking gun that Euromaidan was orchestrated by the US.

Can't aruge with bot logic.

Contemporary sources are your friend here in understanding exactly what deal Obama was talking about and who was party to it. Rather than relying on Mr Lavrov's reinterpretations of history.

Politico link

So, do you believe Vladimir Lukin was an Obama puppet at the time?

I suppose it must be much harder to get the staff in Russia now, what with so many of them having been fed into Putin's meat grinder.

If this is meant to be a gotcha, then it's fallen short of the mark

Fish in a fucking barrel, this thread.

It does prove a PP's point about how poor, unsophisticated and easily disprovable Russian propaganda is, though.