People in small boats

[EndlessRain1]

With everything that is going on in the UK at the moment, can it really be true that one of the top 5 priorities in the country is to stop "people in small boats"?

I mean, I know a lot of people are against immigration in this form, but in the grand scheme of the shit show this country has been in the last couple of years that is in the top 5 priorities/ actions?

AIBU to think that's insane?

This could also be connected to my earlier post about the reduction in people smuggled in lorries, meaning people are pushed more to small boats as it’s the only remaining route.

Not being able to put people back under the Dublin regulation from the end of 2020 has made a HUGE difference.

Look at the graph.

And we lost that right because of Brexit.

So instead of 300 people a year chancing their arms we now have 40,000.

Yours is perfectly coherent.

The pp don’t seem to be adding lorry crossings which have dropped. So I agree with you

Are we checking the incoming lorries now then?

Last I saw we still didn't have functioning incoming customs checks.

Has it? I'd like to see your working out on that - everything I've read suggests that regulation wasn't much used when we were in the EU - so not using it when we were in and not using it now aren't actually that different. But if you have better information, I'm all ears.

It wasn't much used because most of the people who come here are genuine asylum seekers.

But if they weren't we would be able to send them back.

Not being able to send them back means a lot more people chancing their arm.

Hence why shall boat crossings have increased from 299 people in 2018 to over 40,000 in 2022.

This is a genuine question and I'm not meaning to be rude in any way but I don't know much about asylum seekers.
Why do they come to the UK and not go to France/ Germany etc. I was reading that Calais had or has asylum seekers waiting to come to the uk or is that a load of crap?
I want to become educated about this so I can chose better when I vote and to have an awareness so I can support people that escape their horrors in their own countries.

Where would you go if you spoke English and/or had family in the U.K.?

Can you post any reputable links about the numbers of small boat crossings in the 90s @Kinnorafron?

@verdantverdure There are still people being smuggled in by lorry so it’s not a reduction to zero by any measure, but the Border force and I think the National Crime Agency put more thorough checks & systems in place in 2021. I have no idea how effective it is, apart from the govt claiming it’s “successful” and refugee support groups seeing fewer arrivals by lorry.

Anecdotally through work related info (also refugee support), we overwhelmingly see more people who have arrived by boat now, not lorry, whereas a few years ago there wasn’t such a big disparity. I don’t know though if this is completely due to better checks though, or whether the people traffickers/smugglers have decided that boats are a less risky options (for themselves, not the asylum seekers) as smuggling by lorry often involves more cooperation with drivers and larger systems set up to make it work.

So the 80000 a year who claimed asylum in late 90s early 00s weren't "chancing their arm"? Your logic doesn't work - we were in the EU then.

No I can't but they were minimal. That has nothing at all to do with Brexit/Dublin agreement, because we experienced much higher levels of unauthorised entry with attendant claims for asylum in the late 90s when were in the EU. You are fixated on the means of entry - a change to small boats isn't the result of Brexit.

@verdantverdure
That's a point I didn't think of - thankyou

@beekindx If you check upthread (time stamp is 20:40) I wrote a post explaining the situation in France with violence and discrimination against asylum seekers - hopefully it will be helpful!

Also, a larger number of asylum seekers do stay in France and Germany rather than coming to the UK, but as a pp has said, language and family ties can also be a reason for people coming to the UK.

This link has some good information:
www.jcwi.org.uk/blog/rebuttals-tackling-myths-and-inaccuracies-on-channel-crossings

That's really helpful- thankyou x

IMHO there is some truth in the view that enforcement here is minimal - we don't do a lot of checking and we don't have Police posted around a lot demanding to see ID (I think this last is a good thing BTW).
We are a tolerant nation on the whole.
English is a very commonly spoken second language.
We have opportunities for work - legal and less so.
Some parts of mainland Europe can be very openly racist - or at the least, not welcoming to outsiders.

No problem @beekindx 😊 The Refugee Council on twitter is also a good source of info about refugees and asylum seekers, and how workable (or not!) the government’s plans are.

mobile.twitter.com/refugeecouncil

It's the two top reasons people come here. Cos you would, wouldn't you?

Can you post any reputable links about the numbers of what you call illegal channel crossings in the 90s then @Kinnorafron?

Absolutely get it @verdantverdure

Most refugees want to get to wherever there are already people from their culture. Hence why most people coming from North Africa reman in France because a) they speak French and b) there are lots of people form their culture in France. Similarly most Nigerians want to get to the UK because they already speak English and there are lots of Nigerians alredy living in the UK. Same goes for people from Pakistan or India.

I do think it would be sensible if all Western European countries offered exactly the same “benefits package” to refugees and housed them in the same way while waiting for their claim to process.

Eg if it is acceptable in France to house them in makeshift camps, why is that not acceptable over here? And instead of arguing that we should take more because the conditions in France are substandard, why are people not pressurising the French to provide better conditions?

I do feel that the lack of ID cards here is a big draw as it is easier to disappear into the black market economy.

I do feel that the lack of ID cards here is a big draw as it is easier to disappear into the black market economy.
But lack of ID cards is not the reason for that. An ID card would only prevent that if the authorities demanded you produce ID pretty much daily - which would be a big change (and very expensive) for everyone to deal with a very small number of people.

It's not acceptable to deliberately choose to "house" asylum claimants in tent cities. The ones in France are not authorised, they are makeshift and transient. If people are wanting to get to the UK to claim asylum (the only way to claim asylum in the UK is to enter the UK and then claim) then they aren't going to claim asylum in France. If they did, then they would be documented, and then housed by the French state and supported during their asylum claim.