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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Lots of people go to A&E when they shouldn't

306 replies

Liz1tummypain · 04/01/2023 10:18

To be clear- I couldn't think of a way or wording this so I just came up with something that might attract some opinions. It isn't something I can spout about with any authority.

But is it true? My kids are older so I haven't had to go to A&E for ages. Very little experience. On the radio I heard they are trying to re-direct potential patients to pharmacies etc . So what is your view on it?

My mum worked in A&E , a long time ago and she says she thinks people wouldn't have dared to turn up with some minor injuries that she thinks people go in with now. She thinks people just tried home remedies and only went in with broken bones, trauma, sick children. But I think maybe she was just getting a bit worked up after seeing something on TV. She also hasn't been to A&E for a long time.

OP posts:
Minimalme · 04/01/2023 14:29

I think alot of stuff people turn up to A&E with is a direct result of not having adequate GP care.

Original poster
Liz1tummypain · 04/01/2023 14:30

AnnieFarmer · 04/01/2023 14:19

I think a lot of people forget about their local pharmacist. I think it would help if pharmacists in this country were able to advise and sell certain things that are only available on prescription (like in France).

Yes we made use of pharmacists in France (.on hols) and they did seem able to prescribe for things that we'd need to ask.at our GPs over here. I"d forgotten about that

OP posts:
Lostmummy5 · 04/01/2023 14:31

Seaweedandsalt · 04/01/2023 14:27

We have a service in my area where you can see a doctor privately for £10 and they can give out prescriptions too.

You can also see a PIP at a pharmacy www.pharmacyregulation.org/education/pharmacist-independent-prescriber

Show quote history

Really? Good for you.
Pharmacist said he won't prescribe antibiotics for UTI for 3 year old.
Went to another pharmacy for any kind of ointment for foreskin - the same, he is too young, they won't recommend anything.
Cheapest private GP in my area was £54.

I don't have spare £54.

BabbleBee · 04/01/2023 14:32

I’d like to see the statistics pre and post 2012 Health and Social Care Act. The change in commissioning had a direct impact on my local out of hours services and it would be interesting to see if that was proven and / or replicated nationwide.

Ormally · 04/01/2023 14:34

Recent experiences in A&E (1 year ago, and within the Christmas period) have included a non-negotiable triage process straight after reception, by a nurse, before being able to go and wait in the waiting room. So there's a queue for reception and then a queue to go through a nurse before being admitted to wait. Surely this means that real time wasters would be directed to more appropriate services?

Even then, the waiting group was full of very unwell people who had been waiting hours, and overnight. Doctors were coming round to do observations on them periodically. They seemed sick enough to be there, and sick enough that the waiting itself, sometimes without an accompanying person, could make things worse.

The Christmas period experience was with a friend for a suspected blood clot after another op. The waiting was prolonged with a blood test (no medications, food or drink in the hours waiting), then, on the same A&E visit, a scan of one part of the body. The verdict was then to have a scan on another part to explore the possible clot problem, but it couldn't be done the same day by the same scanner, so a booking and a return visit was necessary. That seemed weird in the case of a possible time-sensitive issue, that was addressed as 'worthy' for the A & E triage.

Harperweek · 04/01/2023 14:36

I watch programmes like 24 hours in A&E and Ambulance etc. it's evident in these programmes that people abuse the NHS daily.

GregoryFluff · 04/01/2023 14:38

NeverGonnaNot · 04/01/2023 10:50

I find what a pharmacist can do is very limited despite the list of conditions they can supposedly treat or advise on.

Whenever I have asked a pharmacist to look at a condition they have always advised a GP appointment eg sore toe, ear ache, sore throat that won’t go away, swollen eye.

The sore toe was an ingrowing toenail that needed a referral to podiatry and a minor op, ear ache was a referral to audiology and ears syringed, the sore throat developed into a chest infection which needed antibiotics and the swollen eye was shingles which needed antivirals. (Shingles was me, the rest was dc.)

Fortunately, my gp has seen dc for urgent conditions on the day but getting through on the phone is a nightmare and I have been told on several occasions when I have rung first thing in the morning that there are no appointments left. I always say, it’s urgent and then I get an appointment. Other patients might leave it then the condition can get worse.

When my dc had tonsillitis they became seriously ill in one day and ended up in A&E.

I have to agree with this

Took DD to pharmacist with swollen, sore eye when she was about 11 months. He agreed it was allergy related and we were awaiting results of allergy testing, but they insisted she needed to see a Dr because he couldn't recommend antihistamines for under 1s. Against my better judgement managed to get a same day appointment and Dr straight away said Piriton. Looking back I shouldn't have wasted an appointment like that, I should have just bought it, but I just wanted that little bit of advice and reassurance

Same again when she had an eczema flare up. She'd had prescribed cream before, I knew what worked and what I needed, but they insisted Dr would have to do it. Took 2 days, countless phone calls and being on hold half a morning, sending photos in on the app, a nurse callback and then a Dr callback all to get a prescription for the bloody cream I knew I needed in the first place. God, do I wish you could buy it over the counter

All that practice time wasted

RethinkingLife · 04/01/2023 14:47

Seaweedandsalt · 04/01/2023 14:27

We have a service in my area where you can see a doctor privately for £10 and they can give out prescriptions too.

You can also see a PIP at a pharmacy www.pharmacyregulation.org/education/pharmacist-independent-prescriber

Show quote history

What's the name of the GP scheme, please?

Do you know if it's local to you or available more widely so that people can look to see if it's available in their area?

catfunk · 04/01/2023 14:53

In my area it's nigh on impossible to get a GP appointment and there's no minor injuries unit or walk in centres so I can see why people go to a&e

Crikeyalmighty · 04/01/2023 14:54

In my honest opinion an hour a week for 11 to 16 year olds on general healthcare and good first aid skills would be a damn sight more useful than maths up to 18 for most. Beyond decent levels of numeracy a decent calculator can do most things for most people , whereas unless you are in a very specific career how often do most people need A level maths.

WeeBisom · 04/01/2023 14:55

This is purely anecdotal, but I was recently in a and e (waited 9 hours or so) and was shocked at some of the conditions that other patients thought were suitable for emergency treatment. I know about them because the doctor was treating multiple people at the same time as me. They were: 1) a young man with pins and needles who thought he was having a stroke. It was a common side effect of medication he had recently been prescribed. He was immediately discharged.

  1. a young woman with a cough and breathlessness. She hadn’t tested for covid before coming to a and e. She had covid. Her vital signs were fine , so she was immediately discharged and asked to take flu meds.

  2. a middle aged man who complained of a sore butt. An inspection revealed he had piles ( I was very perturbed to be hearing all this!) The doctor said he had to take salt baths and eat a high fibre diet. The man was pretty annoyed and asked if more could be done. The doc said he had to go see his GP. This culminated in an argument with the man demanding the doctor cure his piles there and then because they were sore. He was told to go buy some cream and then kicked up such a fuss he actually got it dispensed to him from the a and e pharmacy.

  3. a lady with a little girl. She was limping and Insisted on being in a wheelchair. She waited the entire time with her child , and it turned out she had a sprained ankle. She got it wrapped up and was discharged.

oh, and me? A flare up of my inflammatory bowel disease. A really bad one too, that required an over night stay, an iv line and pain relief.

in my personal opinion, none of these people should have been in a and e. I knew I needed to go, because I knew exactly what was up with me and it can be dangerous if left untreated. Not to mention I was in a lot of pain (and it was the weekend.) But the other conditions could all have been sorted easily by a gp or an urgent care clinic. I don’t know if people don’t realise the purpose of a and e, or if they didn’t realise there was anywhere else to do. Maybe they panicked and thought there was something seriously wrong. The poor doctor seemed pretty fed up with it, though.

BellatrixLestrangesHeatedCurlers · 04/01/2023 14:57

Has anyone seen the film Threads? One of the more recent times I went to a&e (mum with broken foot), it was like that hospital scene - blood on the floor (a guy had a deep cut on his arm that was dripping blood through a paper towel and he hadn’t been told or didn’t know to elevate it, it looked awful), a drunk guy totally out of it snoring in the corner, a woman racially abusing a nurse who shrugged and said he was used to it, an overwhelmed receptionist who looked exhausted…

maranella · 04/01/2023 14:58

Some A&E departments now have a GP on staff to deal with all the minor ailments so the A&E doctors can concentrate on the serious cases. With so many people either not being able to get a GP appointment, or not having the wit to discriminate between serious and minor ailments themselves, this strikes me as a very sensible solution to the problem. People are clueless though and often don't have the first idea how to care for themselves and their DC.

Sherbetdib · 04/01/2023 14:59

A lot of people won't really have experience of A and E all the time but can only go on what they have seen when they have. This was mine.
I took my mother to A and E and it was heaving. Patients yes, but also lots extended family members on phones, 'we are in A and E' etc. Pictures being taken. One small child and parent was called and about five other adult relatives stood up to go along too. It cannot be helpful.
The next day I had cause to take her again. It had snowed. And was still snowing. Place was empty bar the very few, like mum who clearly had issues.

Swg · 04/01/2023 15:01

WeeBisom · 04/01/2023 14:55

This is purely anecdotal, but I was recently in a and e (waited 9 hours or so) and was shocked at some of the conditions that other patients thought were suitable for emergency treatment. I know about them because the doctor was treating multiple people at the same time as me. They were: 1) a young man with pins and needles who thought he was having a stroke. It was a common side effect of medication he had recently been prescribed. He was immediately discharged.

  1. a young woman with a cough and breathlessness. She hadn’t tested for covid before coming to a and e. She had covid. Her vital signs were fine , so she was immediately discharged and asked to take flu meds.

  2. a middle aged man who complained of a sore butt. An inspection revealed he had piles ( I was very perturbed to be hearing all this!) The doctor said he had to take salt baths and eat a high fibre diet. The man was pretty annoyed and asked if more could be done. The doc said he had to go see his GP. This culminated in an argument with the man demanding the doctor cure his piles there and then because they were sore. He was told to go buy some cream and then kicked up such a fuss he actually got it dispensed to him from the a and e pharmacy.

  3. a lady with a little girl. She was limping and Insisted on being in a wheelchair. She waited the entire time with her child , and it turned out she had a sprained ankle. She got it wrapped up and was discharged.

oh, and me? A flare up of my inflammatory bowel disease. A really bad one too, that required an over night stay, an iv line and pain relief.

in my personal opinion, none of these people should have been in a and e. I knew I needed to go, because I knew exactly what was up with me and it can be dangerous if left untreated. Not to mention I was in a lot of pain (and it was the weekend.) But the other conditions could all have been sorted easily by a gp or an urgent care clinic. I don’t know if people don’t realise the purpose of a and e, or if they didn’t realise there was anywhere else to do. Maybe they panicked and thought there was something seriously wrong. The poor doctor seemed pretty fed up with it, though.

And yet as I mentioned up thread I’m under orders to go to a&e immediately for pins and needles type symptoms as it’s also a symptom of severe calcium deficiency. You are not a doctor and he might well have been under similar orders to get checked.

Iwrotethelyricstoaxlf · 04/01/2023 15:03

fUNNYfACE36 · 04/01/2023 10:59

A septic finger needs prompt antibiotics ,or ir x5an lead to sepsis.How could you diagnose the footballers knee accident?

Show quote history

And this is where a pharmacist could give a topical antibiotic cream.

I had an infected finger whilst on holiday in Cyprus.

Three minutes in the local pharmacy and 10 euro later a topical antibiotic was given.

Pharmacists should definitely be allowed to prescribe more than they currently do.

BradfordGirl · 04/01/2023 15:06

Except my experience of pharmacists are they are reluctant already to prescribe within their already limited range of power unless you are a healthy young adult with zero other health problems.

GregoryFluff · 04/01/2023 15:09

BradfordGirl · 04/01/2023 15:06

Except my experience of pharmacists are they are reluctant already to prescribe within their already limited range of power unless you are a healthy young adult with zero other health problems.

Completely agree, and if it's a baby/young toddler you want an opinion on, their answer is always GP, even for rashes etc

Crikeyalmighty · 04/01/2023 15:13

@Sherbetdib yes and sadly there are people who quite rightly and understandably can't believe there are families who would hang around 8 hours as some kind of weird entertainment/trip out , but there are . I can't help but wonder if the sheer volume of medical TV, be it reality or drama has contributed somewhat or if it's a complete lack of knowledge as to 'how to treat' often quite simple non life threatening things or if it's the fact that if we Google then the sheer volume of things it says 'seek immediate medical help' lots of these sites are American as well and if you understand the US system then it's common to be on loads of meds at any one time and have multiple 'issues' so it seems . There are also people here who treat GP surgeries in a similar way. It must be incredibly frustrating for staff. Many of these people no doubt were blaming immigration on the sheer numbers. Have to be frank, I didn't see tons of young fit Europeans clogging up the services. - more likely working in them.

Oldsu · 04/01/2023 15:14

4 years ago my DH took me to A&E I had a condition that should have been treatable by over the counter medicine but it wasn't getting better I has been to my GP twice once I was told it was a side effect of antibiotics and then was told a week later I had a virus, 4 days after that I collapsed at home so went to A&E, the Triage Nurse told me I was wasting time refused to let me see a Dr and sent me back to my GP I got an appt with the nurse next day who took one look at me and got the GP, the same one who told me I had a virus, he was visibly shaken when he saw me and sent me straight back to A&E, turns out I had SEPSIS I was in hospital for 11 days I nearly died, if this had happened now I would have as I would not have got a Nurse appt next day

Kevinyoutwat · 04/01/2023 15:14

I miss the days of nhs walk in Centres.

They were fantastic. I’m going back 20 years now, but to just turn up and wait and be able to see a nurse or doctor for illness or minor injuries in about a hour was fantastic.

Ditto the sexual health clinic you could just pop into for contraception or testing.

BradfordGirl · 04/01/2023 15:20

I remember going to a walk in centre fearing I would be waiting for ages. I was really quickly seen. They were good.

RethinkingLife · 04/01/2023 15:24

BradfordGirl · 04/01/2023 15:06

Except my experience of pharmacists are they are reluctant already to prescribe within their already limited range of power unless you are a healthy young adult with zero other health problems.

Is this those with independent prescribing powers? There are about 15,000 registered independent prescribers but I don't know what restrictions they're working under.

There were 14,635 independent prescribers on the pharmacy register in August 2022, compared with 8,806 independent prescribers in May 2020.

pharmaceutical-journal.com/article/news/independent-prescribing-pharmacist-numbers-total-15000-increasing-by-two-thirds-in-two-years

Boots has an online team of independent prescribers but I've no idea how much they're used or if they restrict by age group/complexity etc.

www.boots.com/prescription-support/meet-online-clinics-prescribing-team

tbh, I can't even see how people can find the nearest pharmacist independent prescriber. I can see the 'Find a pharmacy' but not obvious way of working out which has an IP on duty.

www.nhs.uk/service-search/pharmacy/find-a-pharmacy

Climatic123 · 04/01/2023 15:34

Our local child A&E used to operate an out of hours gp throughout the night, on the basis that is you were worried enough to take your child there in the middle of the night it was probably worth them seeing you. It was excellent. We took one son with an ear infection once, and tonsillitis. Both in the middle of the night when they wouldn’t sleep with the pain. Got antibiotics really quickly. The other son was also taken to get bronchiolitis assessed and was admitted. Kids can get very ill very quickly and children’s A&E was often very quiet at 2am so it made sense for the staff too.

BrownEyedGhoul · 04/01/2023 15:38

I have just yet again seen a post on a local FB group asking for waiting times at the local A&E because they are trying to decide whether to go or not.

If you are deciding whether to go based on the wait, you don't need to go.

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