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Original poster

to think Rishi Sunak can't count

61 replies

Nimbostratus100 · 04/01/2023 08:16

Say approx 5 000 000 secondary school children in England

Say approx 20 000 qualified specialised maths teachers

5 000 000 /20 000 so each maths teacher gets 250 children

Say each child gets a lesson 4 times a week, and the teacher is actively teaching 80% of the time.

so that's about 5 classes of 50

And the teacher marking and planning for 200 pupils a day

Can't Sunak see any flaws in this plan?

We are not in a position to provide maths specialist teaching up to 16. We missed recruitment targets by a third this year. We are not able to provide ANY sort of education to 18 for many students, even keen and motivated students are frequently unable to find school places after 16.

So add in to my original equation the fact that a certain number of those original 5 000 000 will be reluctant to comply with the maths teacher even if they are timetabled to be with one

In fact, currently, I know some maths classes post 16, (which are supposedly compulsory for anyone who is still in the system and does not have maths GCSE) have anything up to 60 students on the register already. But are timetabled with 10 text books in a room with enough room for 20, on the assumptions that most wont attend, and the system would break if they did.

OP posts:
Sillybanana · 04/01/2023 10:28

I was so depressed for my children reading Rishi’s plans. Apart from the points mentioned above, does he not realise how futile it is to force children to study maths when they don’t want to? After the age of 16? It will be hell for the teachers and the kids who aren’t mathematic inclined. What is he trying to achieve here?

FriedEggChocolate · 04/01/2023 10:30

My DS will be in his GCSE year at the next election so I was "delighted" to read this, which suggests he's then supposed to be continuing with maths until 18 as the guinea pig year. Our primary schools send students to secondary who can't do times tables, write or read with any fluency, often relating to SENs that the schools can't / won't support. Maybe he needs to start a bit further down the chain and sort these out before adding extra years on top of a system that for many students has already underprepared them?

This is just him deflecting from the traing / ambulances / teachers / legal staff on strike isn't it?

AWaferThinMint · 04/01/2023 10:32

We shouldn't be forcing older teens to study anything, it's ridiculous.

By 15/16 you know your interests. Treating older kids like this is infantilising. What if they're into arts, or sport, or humanities, or woodwork, or motor mechanics. Just let them learn a skill or subject that interests them.

Idiots

saraclara · 04/01/2023 10:39

Iam4eels · 04/01/2023 09:55

but voting labour? I just can’t. I feel it would be a vote against my own sex. How can you vote for that?

The Tories are no friend to women.

Their austerity policies have disproportionately impacted women as it is women who are more likely to be in low paid employment, more likely to be single parents, and more likely to be carers. As part of rhe two child cap they introduced the rape cause into benefits in which a woman must disclose to a professional that she has been raped and must complete two forms detailing the act in order to be able to claim benefits for the resulting child. They have overseen the closure of domestic abuse services and refuges and removed the right to Legal Aid for domestic abuse victims, again a policy which disproportionately affects women and - alongside changes to the benefits system - forces many women to stay with their abuser. The childcare sector is on the brink of collapse and more nurseries and providers than ever are closing down or have no places available leading to women being forced out of the workplace as its usually women who are the lower earner or the main carer, just this week plans to reform childcare were shelved. As for rhe nurseries and childcare providers themselves, this is a sector predominantly staffed by women and is massively underfunded by the government meaning staff are poorly paid for the work they do and usually need top up benefits (which loops back around to the first point in this paragraph). The Tories voted against making misogyny a hate crime. Under Tories leadership, only 1% of reported rapes result in prosecution. Maternity care at over 39% of units is classed as "substandard" and maternity negligence is the largest area of compensation claim within the NHS. As for the MPs, the current minister for women is openly anti-abortion, a candidate in the last election claimed women should keep their knickers on if they wanted to avoid being raped, advice given to women after the Sarah Everard murder included don't go out alone and flag down a bus if you're in trouble, No10 hired a known sex offender, an MP openly watched porn in Parliament, there have been allegations sexual misconduct against several MPs and the levels of misogyny and sexual harassment within the party have been described as "endemic".

BuT aT lEaSt ThEy KnOw WhAt A wOmAn Is..... yeah, and they hate her.

👏👏👏

This 'one issue feminism' bewilders me. The Tory party is horrifically misogynist in its policies and decisions, and they absolutely do not deserve any feminist vote. I'm a middle of the road voter, but the damage that's been done to women's rights and health by the Tories, will only be undone if Labour gets into power, as far as I can see.

bridgetreilly · 04/01/2023 10:48

Former maths teacher here. It’s not just capacity, though that is obviously a huge flaw in the plan. It’s also about ability. There are plenty of kids who have learned as much maths as they are ever going to be able to by 16. Tbh, there are plenty who have reached that stage earlier. Making them sit in more lessons isn’t going to benefit anyone.

My radical proposal would be to make education optional from the age of 14 on condition that functional literacy and numeracy tests are passed. They could be retaken every six months up to 16, when students would be free to leave. There’s a clear incentive to pass. Schools are freed up to focus on the students who want to stay. Those who don’t can enter the workforce.

electricmoccasins · 04/01/2023 11:22

The Tomlinson Report (2004) should have been fully implemented. It never was. It’s key areas were:

*Provide courses which stretch children.
*Ensure that children have basic literacy and numeracy skills.
*Raise the status of vocational qualifications.
*Reduce the amount of assessment and the number of exams.
*Simplify the system - make it easier to carry over achievements from one course of study to the next.
*14–19 diploma to replace GCSEs, A- and AS-Levels, BTECs and AVCEs.

Of course, the above also needed a fully-funded education system, including a well-paid and respected teacher-workforce with a work/life balance. New Labour could have done it. Instead, they brought in target culture, which was implemented further by Gove coupled with his punitive performance management agenda.

Lackofsleepishurting · 04/01/2023 11:23

bridgetreilly · 04/01/2023 10:48

Former maths teacher here. It’s not just capacity, though that is obviously a huge flaw in the plan. It’s also about ability. There are plenty of kids who have learned as much maths as they are ever going to be able to by 16. Tbh, there are plenty who have reached that stage earlier. Making them sit in more lessons isn’t going to benefit anyone.

My radical proposal would be to make education optional from the age of 14 on condition that functional literacy and numeracy tests are passed. They could be retaken every six months up to 16, when students would be free to leave. There’s a clear incentive to pass. Schools are freed up to focus on the students who want to stay. Those who don’t can enter the workforce.

Your radical proposal reminds me of what Marx said about workers being educated by their labour: those young people would still be educated, just in the workforce. It's a difficulty getting young people to actually secure a job though. Many end up as NEETs. I'm not sure that our employment sector is vast or creative enough to inspire and educate the youth anymore. Cutting off education early also limits their abilities to emigrate as they will have less points.

Original poster
Nimbostratus100 · 07/01/2023 07:48

bridgetreilly · 04/01/2023 10:48

Former maths teacher here. It’s not just capacity, though that is obviously a huge flaw in the plan. It’s also about ability. There are plenty of kids who have learned as much maths as they are ever going to be able to by 16. Tbh, there are plenty who have reached that stage earlier. Making them sit in more lessons isn’t going to benefit anyone.

My radical proposal would be to make education optional from the age of 14 on condition that functional literacy and numeracy tests are passed. They could be retaken every six months up to 16, when students would be free to leave. There’s a clear incentive to pass. Schools are freed up to focus on the students who want to stay. Those who don’t can enter the workforce.

What happened to the city technology colleges of 10 years ago? Wasn't this what they tried? I know one or two local ones, but they have just morphed into normal schools now, I dont know why, but I suspect it was league tables and ofsted, etc.

I once worked in an excellent sixth form school, with a big vocational faculty. More than half of students were doing vocational courses. Mostly they had failed in academic courses. But Ofsted didn't like it and it looked very bad in the league tables

OP posts:
Original poster
Nimbostratus100 · 07/01/2023 07:49

I think the city technology colleges were trying to do the same, except from 14, not 16. I may have the name wrong

OP posts:
paintitallover · 07/01/2023 12:29

There are 3473 secondary schools in English, not half a million!

Original poster
Nimbostratus100 · 07/01/2023 12:38

where does it say half a million secondary schools? did someone say that?

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