to think Rishi Sunak can't count

[Nimbostratus100]

Say approx 5 000 000 secondary school children in England

Say approx 20 000 qualified specialised maths teachers

5 000 000 /20 000 so each maths teacher gets 250 children

Say each child gets a lesson 4 times a week, and the teacher is actively teaching 80% of the time.

so that's about 5 classes of 50

And the teacher marking and planning for 200 pupils a day

Can't Sunak see any flaws in this plan?

We are not in a position to provide maths specialist teaching up to 16. We missed recruitment targets by a third this year. We are not able to provide ANY sort of education to 18 for many students, even keen and motivated students are frequently unable to find school places after 16.

So add in to my original equation the fact that a certain number of those original 5 000 000 will be reluctant to comply with the maths teacher even if they are timetabled to be with one

In fact, currently, I know some maths classes post 16, (which are supposedly compulsory for anyone who is still in the system and does not have maths GCSE) have anything up to 60 students on the register already. But are timetabled with 10 text books in a room with enough room for 20, on the assumptions that most wont attend, and the system would break if they did.

Or what the hourly rate is for a qualified teacher when you add up all of the non-pupil facing hours of admin/prep together.

The government actually do calculate this and, if memory serves, it was below minimum wage for NQTs when I left but I can't find the information now - I'll keep hunting.

Because there’s more to life then the trans topic tbh and it shows how many people are in te gender critical cult that they would throw us for more tory shite

Going back to little miss/mr window kicker here.

This is so utterly depressing. This illustrates so clearly what is wrong with our system

This is a child. This child needs boundaries, consequences, investment, resources, constructive adult input, and they are not getting it.

It is truly awful and totally unsustainable for the adults subjected to daily abuse in schools.

But its so much more than that for the children allowed to turn feral. They will spend a lifetime feeling no one cared enough about them to help and support them correcting their behaviour to become a functioning learner and eventually a well equipped member of the community.

Result, an individual who will most likely spend the next 70 years ignorant, unproductive, alienated, angry and miserable.

I managed to find the government's 2016 Teacher's Working Hours Survey Report. It found that teachers worked, on average, 56.7 hours per week so, factoring in that teachers should be entitled to paid holiday (5.6 weeks) before calculating minimum wage (£7.20 in 2016), that would mean that teachers needed to earn at least £23,587.20 - but minimum teacher's pay was £22,467 then. And the situation has just got worse since then.

Dead cat on the table.

It’s a mad, unworkable and unnecessary plan. What’s being proposed won’t really help pupils in adult life - if you could find teachers in the numbers needed.

But it’ll get people talking about maths rather than ambulances outside hospitals.

I was given maths as a timetable filler. My main, and trained for, subject was technology. (I also did RE - Oh your Dad’s a vicar - you could teach RE.)

He was obviously in the same class as Gove when they were taught that everyone needs to be better than average.

They need household maths.

Energy bills. Working out a bit from meter readings.
Tax. Pay including pension and ni and tax.
Savings. Credit cards. Inflation.

Nice sensible maths.

I can confirm teachers are regularly working for below minimum wage. I have calculated my own hourly rate, as have many of my colleagues over the years, and the calculation frequently comes out lower.

I have worked as a TA and as a teacher, and as a TA was on near double the pay per hour.

I have heard a SENCO argue for getting a teacher appointed to the special needs department in their school, turn down the offer of 2 TAs instead, on the basis that they could get more hours out of a single teacher "and you can demand even more"

This.
And there's a reason the minutiae of what happens in schools is the default dead cat option. It's because everyone has strong opinions on what exactly children should be taught. Never, ever do you hear people say 'leave it to the teachers and child development experts'. Someone upthread in an otherwise sensible post opining that children should be taught 'a basic understanding of contract law' ffs. If we want to have any chance of reversing this haemorrhaging of teachers we ALL have to have less of an opinion because if you really want your child to know something specific... they spend most of their time with you and you can teach them that yourself! And model valuing teachers and trusting their judgment.

sorry, I dont think that was right. I think as a TA I was on more per hour than a teacher, but I dont think it could have been near double. That doesn't sound right, does it. Certainly as a TA I was earning more per hour than as a teacher

Man's an idiot! He thinks his education is the source of his success, he may be right but adding a bit of maths on will not be the equivalent of attending Winchester.

Rishi & Mr Sunak? 🙄

If he’s done this to save himself he’s dead already.

I’m not sure which thread you’re referring to and I also absolutely lose my mind with the “why aren’t schools teaching absolutely everything” brigade (the most recent one I saw was that schools should teach pupils how to behave around dogs) but I’ll admit I did wish someone has taught basic contract law to some people commenting on one thread the other day and giving the OP baffling incorrect legal advice (it’s not binding unless it’s signed and one person suggesting she call 101 and the contract isn’t “active” until you pay the money), on another thread someone said the OP isn’t liable for their DC damaging a NDN’s car because they were under the age of criminal responsibility. Whilst schools can’t teach pupils absolutely all knowledge, I do wish we’d teach pupils to stop adamantly answering questions that they don’t know the answer to. Sometimes it’s ok to say nothing and sometimes it’s ok to not know.

@Iwantmyoldnameback There’s no point having an education when you don’t even know the basics.

It's all sound bites and distraction from him anyway.

Why maths though? Why not an actual subject that will help them through life like business studies learning about VAT and taxes.... is it because they are scared more people will clock on how much Rishi and his slimey mates have fucked everyone over?

But that's the issue: that 'someone' always has to be teachers. It just cannot be their job to sort out every misconception in society.

Sorry can't locate the post mentioning contract law now- I agree that teaching children how to behave around dogs also has to fall outside the remit of schooling! But the issue is each of these hundreds of suggestions sound reasonable on their own, but we have lost all sense of schools not being FOR stuffing in every useful bit of information that every adult in the country can think of.

Oh and I agree that pupils should be taught its OK to say they don't know... but that's onw of the many unwanted consequences of national testing from age 5... children are taught to 'have a go' at the answer rather than considering their thought process.

but voting labour? I just can’t. I feel it would be a vote against my own sex. How can you vote for that?

The Tories are no friend to women.

Their austerity policies have disproportionately impacted women as it is women who are more likely to be in low paid employment, more likely to be single parents, and more likely to be carers. As part of rhe two child cap they introduced the rape cause into benefits in which a woman must disclose to a professional that she has been raped and must complete two forms detailing the act in order to be able to claim benefits for the resulting child. They have overseen the closure of domestic abuse services and refuges and removed the right to Legal Aid for domestic abuse victims, again a policy which disproportionately affects women and - alongside changes to the benefits system - forces many women to stay with their abuser. The childcare sector is on the brink of collapse and more nurseries and providers than ever are closing down or have no places available leading to women being forced out of the workplace as its usually women who are the lower earner or the main carer, just this week plans to reform childcare were shelved. As for rhe nurseries and childcare providers themselves, this is a sector predominantly staffed by women and is massively underfunded by the government meaning staff are poorly paid for the work they do and usually need top up benefits (which loops back around to the first point in this paragraph). The Tories voted against making misogyny a hate crime. Under Tories leadership, only 1% of reported rapes result in prosecution. Maternity care at over 39% of units is classed as "substandard" and maternity negligence is the largest area of compensation claim within the NHS. As for the MPs, the current minister for women is openly anti-abortion, a candidate in the last election claimed women should keep their knickers on if they wanted to avoid being raped, advice given to women after the Sarah Everard murder included don't go out alone and flag down a bus if you're in trouble, No10 hired a known sex offender, an MP openly watched porn in Parliament, there have been allegations sexual misconduct against several MPs and the levels of misogyny and sexual harassment within the party have been described as "endemic".

BuT aT lEaSt ThEy KnOw WhAt A wOmAn Is..... yeah, and they hate her.

Sorry if I was unclear. I wish someone had taught it to them but I appreciate it’s not possible for that to happen. Frankly, parents need to step (in general) and teach their children more stuff. Random stuff, fun stuff, interesting stuff, important stuff. If people want their child to know some niche aspect of the world’s knowledge like water safety/dog behaviour/first aid/cooking/sock darning/lambing/wing walking/etc and it’s important enough to even make a post saying that schools should teach it then they should teach it themselves in the same time it takes to write the post.

I agree...and you can add to that the ability to tell the time...apparently not the parents job either. 🤯

They are going to have to start paying them £80k a year or no one will do it

I would have completely checked out of school had I been made to carry on with maths until age 18, and I would have been incapable of A Level maths, just scraping a C at GCSE. It was bad enough having to carry on with science subjects.
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If I were in charge I would completely redesign secondary education, scrap GCSEs and allow complete freedom of choice of what to do from age 14-18 and include vocational subjects also.

Whilst I believe everything people are saying about lack of teachers and why its an almost impossible job as an aspirational policy i think its right. All kids should study a broad range of subjects including maths to 18. GCSEs should be ditiched, national curriculum should be rethought, teachers should be given more autonomy and respect - whole thing needs an overhaul. You cant just bolt on some extra maths lessons to a broken system.

Fantastic post and you are right the tories care nothing about women.