Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ask why there are such conflicting views on how we perceive young people and children on here.

54 replies

pillow56 · 04/01/2023 07:42

When an adult raises a voice to a child on mn it's seen as very wrong and traumatising for the child and by child I mean anybody under 18.

Yet mn seems to have a view that any child over 15 (and even 14 in some cases) it's fine for them to drink, stay out as late as they want or have sex/share bed with boyfriends and gfs. The thinking seems to be as they are mature enough at that age and parents who want to enforce rules and boundaries often get roasted as at 15/16 they can stay out all night if they want apparently and many here condone teen holidays abroad at that age with no parents as the thinking goes they have the maturity anyway and parents should back off...

On the other hand though if any adult in their mid 20s and up is dating a 17-21 yo it's seen as highly inappropriate as the 20yo is still a child, vulnerable and shouldn't be dating a 26 yo.

Can I ask why there is such a disparity on how we view our youth here?

OP posts:
GeneticallyModifiedGrump · 04/01/2023 09:59

you can to an extent but as people they are still developing, lacking maturity and require guidance from adults to develop. They can't be fully independent. They aren't adults.
I don't think conservative parents get any particular stick on here, certainly no more than any other type of parent!
Allowing a 15/16 year old to have a social life (which may or may not mean going out in the evening) is part of guiding them into adulthood. I did absolutely nothing until I turned 18 (and was finally free!) and had a bumpy few years navigating the adult social scene as I had zero experience growing up.
My eldest isn't particularly interested in partying but he knows he can go out if he wants to, your parenting sounds very control based to me but each to their own.

Memam · 04/01/2023 10:02

pillow56 · 04/01/2023 08:18

I feel for you @pillow56 i think you have fallen foul of how cruel MN users can be
On the “it’s fine for a 15/16 year old to stay out all night” example, I’ve similarly seen nearly every poster agree contrary to the OP that it’s fine for them to be out all night or having sex with someone older
However - never underestimate the fact that if the first few replies are contrary in order to goad the OP and upset them, then others will follow
So it doesn’t matter in the end if the view is batshit or against conventional wisdom, as long as it’s the opposite of the OP’s sensible view, and they get a rise out of them

that's interesting, see call me naïve but I assumed most people on mn were being honest. See I'm honest on mn, I say exactly what I think and would do as I don't see sense or logic in doing otherwise.

There appears to be quite a few (or the same person) MNers who write some pretty nasty and immature replies just to get a rise out of the OP or others on here. I don't think they can be called the voice of MN, but I see your point.

TeenDivided · 04/01/2023 10:36

I think that from around 14 onwards, you are basically parenting by consent.
The older they get the less leverage you have as a parent.
So you have to judge how far your teen will pushback against any rule and what consequences you are prepared to give.
The ultimate thing a teen can do is leave home, which if they have another parent elsewhere, of the parents of a friend/gf/bf willing to take them in is an easy option. At that point you have zero influence.

Original poster
pillow56 · 04/01/2023 12:27

no police time in Britain would be allocated to breaking the house rules, unless it was a safeguarding concern they wouldn't care

if a 15/16 yo is out drinking or refusing to come home it is very much a safe guarding issue

OP posts:
Original poster
pillow56 · 04/01/2023 12:29

So does that change in 2 years time, as soon as they reach 18

I was waiting on this, yes there is a huge difference between a 16 yo and an 18yo in maturity, development, decision making etc.

OP posts:
girlmom21 · 04/01/2023 12:31

pillow56 · 04/01/2023 12:29

So does that change in 2 years time, as soon as they reach 18

I was waiting on this, yes there is a huge difference between a 16 yo and an 18yo in maturity, development, decision making etc.

And there is between 14 and 16. At some point you need to take a step back. You can't suddenly give them a load of freedom at 18 and expect them to behave like adults if they've never been allowed to before. We need to prepare them for adulthood gradually.

WhatNoRaisins · 04/01/2023 12:36

I'm not convinced there is anything that suddenly happens at 18, I've seen young adults who were babied as teenagers for the benefit of their anxious parents and they really struggled at this stage. The idea that you've just got to get them to this age and then it's all fine isn't realistic.

You have to let go, let them make more and more of their own decisions, let them take reasonable risks and potentially make mistakes. I think it's better that they make their mistakes while they're still young enough to have people's sympathy rather than at an age where they're expected to have their shit together.

Lockheart · 04/01/2023 12:41

It's an unconscious bias called adultification and how people are perceived depends heavily on the circumstances and the perceiver, and what the perceiver wants to convey and wants others to think.

For example, if a 17 year old male commits a crime, he would likely be described by many on here as a man. Describing him as a man makes him easier to hate / be angry at in that circumstance. It justifies it more.

If a 17 year old male is conversely the victim of a crime, he would likely be described as a child. It is an emotional trick that elicits sympathy, in a direct opposite of the scenario above.

BiasedBinding · 04/01/2023 12:47

pillow56 · 04/01/2023 12:27

no police time in Britain would be allocated to breaking the house rules, unless it was a safeguarding concern they wouldn't care

if a 15/16 yo is out drinking or refusing to come home it is very much a safe guarding issue

it may well be, but if the police aren’t actually able to do anything about it (because other priorities or whatever) it’s not a useful option in terms of consequences for your own teenager. What is your backup for if you call the police on your teenager who has disregarded your rules, and they tell you it’s up to you to deal with, they can’t do anything right now?

Original poster
pillow56 · 04/01/2023 12:48

You can't suddenly give them a load of freedom at 18 and expect them to behave like adults if they've never been allowed to before. We need to prepare them for adulthood gradually

letting a 16 yo stay out all night and have no idea where they are etc isn't a ''prepare them for adulthood gradually'' though. It's irresponsible yet many on mn say it's no problem.
I'll be told I'm being unreasonable here but if there was a news story about a 15 yo dying of alcohol poisoning at 6 in the morning after an all night bender mn be up on arms blaming the parents, saying their kid would never have the chance to be out that that time etc...
Likewise if a 19 yo brought home a 25 yo boyfriend on mn it's seen as outrageous as they are still a kid etc.

OP posts:
BiasedBinding · 04/01/2023 12:49

I’m not talking about what maybe ought to happen in an ideal society - I mean literally what do you do with your own teenager if they break the rules, you call the police, they tell you they can’t help you?

chipsandpeas · 04/01/2023 12:54

i can imagine the laughter at the police station when the OP calls the police saying my 15 year old wont wash the dishes

Original poster
pillow56 · 04/01/2023 12:57

I don't think conservative parents get any particular stick on here, certainly no more than any other type of parent

I've seen alot of threads where the parent is having an adult child return for a holiday with as partner and wishes for there to be separate beds. There appears to be a huge backlash on here against this rather than people having respect for others views. Like it's fine to disagree with it but I've seen ops get flamed more often than not for having these views.

The general consensus appease to be to appease them at every cost and let them do what they want. There also appears to be a massive drama created on mn if a parent/teacher ever raises their voice at a child. Like yes we shouldn't shout constantly at kids but we are all human and kids can push boundaries yet the whole thinking that it will psychologically destroy them is nonsense.

There appears to be a softie softie approach on here and yet then when an op says her friend's kids are out of control the parent is condemned for not being firm enough, being too soft etc.

OP posts:
Original poster
pillow56 · 04/01/2023 12:58

i can imagine the laughter at the police station when the OP calls the police saying my 15 year old wont wash the dishes

I meant staying out all night, think you are being deliberately trolly here.

OP posts:
BiasedBinding · 04/01/2023 13:06

pillow56 · 04/01/2023 12:57

I don't think conservative parents get any particular stick on here, certainly no more than any other type of parent

I've seen alot of threads where the parent is having an adult child return for a holiday with as partner and wishes for there to be separate beds. There appears to be a huge backlash on here against this rather than people having respect for others views. Like it's fine to disagree with it but I've seen ops get flamed more often than not for having these views.

The general consensus appease to be to appease them at every cost and let them do what they want. There also appears to be a massive drama created on mn if a parent/teacher ever raises their voice at a child. Like yes we shouldn't shout constantly at kids but we are all human and kids can push boundaries yet the whole thinking that it will psychologically destroy them is nonsense.

There appears to be a softie softie approach on here and yet then when an op says her friend's kids are out of control the parent is condemned for not being firm enough, being too soft etc.

I don’t see what you see at all on here. There isn’t a consensus. You are an MNer, you are posting here, you are part of the community and contributing to any “consensus” such as there is. It isn’t you vs the rest of MN.

SirenSays · 04/01/2023 13:16

I've never seen a thread where every poster was completely happy letting a 15 year old completely vanish for the night.

GeneticallyModifiedGrump · 04/01/2023 13:16

I am by no means soft on my children OP and they are very well behaved however I don't do this by controlling their social interactions (to the extent that you seem to feel is acceptable). I know who there friends are and where they are going/what time they will be home...this works as the kids respect me and understand I have a reason for wanting to know. I have never had to threaten to call the police to get them home on time, Is this something you have actually told your children you would do?
You still sound controlling (to me) and overly disciplinarian, as I mentioned before my mother was exactly the same with me and ages 18-20 were tricky for me as I really enjoyed my new freedom and definitely made the most of it without the background knowledge of how to behave in more adult situations/company.

girlmom21 · 04/01/2023 13:20

pillow56 · 04/01/2023 12:48

You can't suddenly give them a load of freedom at 18 and expect them to behave like adults if they've never been allowed to before. We need to prepare them for adulthood gradually

letting a 16 yo stay out all night and have no idea where they are etc isn't a ''prepare them for adulthood gradually'' though. It's irresponsible yet many on mn say it's no problem.
I'll be told I'm being unreasonable here but if there was a news story about a 15 yo dying of alcohol poisoning at 6 in the morning after an all night bender mn be up on arms blaming the parents, saying their kid would never have the chance to be out that that time etc...
Likewise if a 19 yo brought home a 25 yo boyfriend on mn it's seen as outrageous as they are still a kid etc.

Your OP said nothing about kids staying out all night.

Original poster
pillow56 · 04/01/2023 13:21

I am by no means soft on my children OP and they are very well behaved however I don't do this by controlling their social interactions (to the extent that you seem to feel is acceptable). I know who there friends are and where they are going/what time they will be home...this works as the kids respect me and understand I have a reason for wanting to know. I have never had to threaten to call the police to get them home on time, Is this something you have actually told your children you would do

I've never had to do this but my point was that there is a consensus on many mn threads that 15-17 yos can stay out all night if they want to and it's controlling for a parent to demand them home at a certain time

You still sound controlling (to me) and overly disciplinarian

for not thinking it's appropriate to have 15-17 yo having sex in my house. Or for not allowing a 15 yo to stay out all night...

OP posts:
BiasedBinding · 04/01/2023 13:23

“I've never had to do this but my point was that there is a consensus on many mn threads that 15-17 yos can stay out all night if they want to and it's controlling for a parent to demand them home at a certain time”

I have never never seen this as a “consensus”. Different opinions on different individual situations perhaps, but the consensus you describe - no. And I have been on MN a long long time.

Original poster
pillow56 · 04/01/2023 13:25

Your OP said nothing about kids staying out all night

Yes it did ''Yet mn seems to have a view that any child over 15 (and even 14 in some cases) it's fine for them to drink, stay out as late as they want or have sex/share bed with boyfriends and gfs''

OP posts:
girlmom21 · 04/01/2023 13:26

pillow56 · 04/01/2023 13:25

Your OP said nothing about kids staying out all night

Yes it did ''Yet mn seems to have a view that any child over 15 (and even 14 in some cases) it's fine for them to drink, stay out as late as they want or have sex/share bed with boyfriends and gfs''

Staying out late is different to staying out all night.

Staying out late is fine if there's communication.
All of this is about respect and communication

BabyOnBoard90 · 04/01/2023 13:28

Crazies have a more a voice here

GeneticallyModifiedGrump · 04/01/2023 13:58

I've never had to do this but my point was that there is a consensus on many mn threads that 15-17 yos can stay out all night if they want to and it's controlling for a parent to demand them home at a certain time
Well I've not noticed this OP, it's mostly parents trying to work out how much freedom to give their kids ie asking if posters would let kids attend certain parties etc. Its mostly just asking for opinions (like we would have done with a network of friends and family years ago but now we've moved online)
Sharing beds with boyfriends/girlfriends is down to the individuals involved, of course some people will say never under my roof even if their children are married! Most 14 year olds are not sleeping with their partner in my experience but you will always have some that do, I don't think it's necessarily wrong to assume they are safer doing it at home than sneaking around doing it. The outcome will be the same, they are still going to have sex if that's what they want!

lightand · 04/01/2023 14:00

People are pushing a woke agenda.

Now we know people on MN and elsewhere on social media, push the Meghan agenda, it doesnt take much of a leap to assume there are posters on MN who push all sorts.