to stand up for myself and say no more to bullying at work?

[sweetkitty]

I’ll try and keep this simple. I work part-time, I work the end of the week Weds pm, thus/fri. I have 3 assistants, 2 of whom have started bullying me as they seem to prefer the other person. I have worked with the 2 of them before separately fine but in the last few months since they have gotten together it’s like they have taken over.

I’m not an assertive, bossy person by nature, I prefer to make sure everyone has a voice and instead of micro-managing I have allowed them to be adults and take their own breaks etc. It is especially difficult when you come in at the end of the week and they are like “oh we’ve not been doing that all week etc”

If I was working full time in the role I would be in complete control and it would be a different situation in that it would be completely my rules but I’ve been so aware of not upsetting the start of the week person etc that I’ve been too soft and not assertive enough.

The other tricky thing is we work with children so if I come in and change things it’s going to upset the continuity for the children. I’m all about nurture and building relationships whereas they are about discipline.

it’s got to the stage they are mean and just toxic, if I ask them to do something they won’t do it or do it hesitantly. One started tidying up the other day because he wanted to (bearing in mind he is MY assistant), he went as far as telling me it was time for my lunch (at this point I was speechless and said I’ll go when I am ready). Then there’s all the little passive-aggressive things the rolling of the eyes at each other, the missing me off the break rota, the going out after work and not inviting me, it’s silly pathetic little things.

My job share feels a bit the same but to lesser extent, so now I’m going back and I’m going to have to seriously kick some ass and grow a pair however uncomfortable it feels. I won’t be back until Weds which again is difficult, I’m going to have to have a meeting with them probably separately and speak to them and say this is not on technically I am your manager. You are overstepping the bark wind your necks in. Of course doesn’t help that everyone else in the team think they are wonderful they’ve obviously been talking about me a lot behind my back. I detest all this bullshit all I want to do is do the best for the children I teach.

sorry for the huge post

any hints/tips would be appreciated helps this very sensitive empath?

OP are you a classroom teacher, in a Primary school on STPC?

so are you in actual fact their manager and they your assistants?

Assuming they are TAs then OP is not their manager and they are not her assistants, they are classroom support for (usually specific) children.

Yes, I agree with above, the context is important for the advice on how to deal with it. If it is a teacher, TA scenario then it isn't likely to be an LM and assistants, that's why at first I thought it was a private nursery.

@sweetkitty you and your job share must be much smarter about this. Now they are experiencing the same thing, have a meeting and agree how you will work. This will take compromise as you won’t organise things the same so give and take.

1. Staff rota - your job share types this up or you do it on a Friday. Email so you both have a copy. You can delegate writing the board but if it’s not what you agreed, correct it stating Job share and I agreed this at start of the week.
2. Work plans - each do your own but share them so you each know what has been done/is planned.
3. Ground rules - agree them I.e. what do you as team leaders decide and where is there flexibility for your staff to use initiative.
4. Team meeting with both of you - it’s the start of new term/year, last year some behaviours/practices were bordering on unprofessional so reset and this is how we (other team leader and I) will be organising staff rota, work plans, ground rule etc. Any questions? Try to both present some bits so it looks like you are working together.
5. Quick email hand over from other team leader to you and you to them of any behaviours that need stamping on.
6. ignore childish behaviours e.g. going out without you.
7. Basically make it clear you and your job share are working together.

@sweetkitty should have said 1:2:1 meetings with each staff members set them objectives that address unprofessional behaviours e.g. not following a direct instruction.

Initially this will take extra time but you need to stop it or they will take over.

Key words/phrases like unprofessional, disrespectful, Job share and I are managers and will decide, no I am asking you to do X etc. can quickly convey you are not a push over.

All these points are good advice if the OP has autonomy in 'managing' the staff whoever they may be but if she is a teacher, she will be circumvented and I would imagine they won't give a shiny shit considering how the recruitment for Tas is at the moment. Why are they behaving in this way, if they are worried about the OP''s ability to decide their fate they wouldn't be so disrespectful which makes me question the OP's level of authority here.

I would imagine they won't give a shiny shit considering how the recruitment for Tas is at the moment. Why are they behaving in this way, if they are worried about the OP''s ability to decide their fate they wouldn't be so disrespectful which makes me question the OP's level of authority here

you'd think that but I work in London and in the south east where the shortage is at its worst. Schools still fire and push out people all the time-both teachers and tas. Don't think because there is a shortage schools will be all nicey and that staff have the whole say. In some schools perhaps but others if they don't like you or you are difficult you'll be gone fast if the slt are my way or no way minded.

That is more about your attitude to work than how the world really functions. Teachers are professionals, judged against a set of national standards, not the whims of individual managers.
If a member of SLT is directing you to do something which is not in the best interest of your children's learning then your professional duty is to say no. I've worked for some managers who think otherwise but when push comes to shove they always fail.
In grown-up land the rationale for decisions is communicated, changes are discussed and people are treated like human beings

eh have you actually worked in teaching? Clearly not, 1 of the big reasons people leave is the amount of red tape extra tasks ofsted/slt want and teachers think it's pointless but have to do it anyway. I've seen it myself and seen umpteen threads here on it. There is no negotiation on it, you do as you are told.

This sounds like a complete lack of communication rather than bullying. For example re them changing the activities. Why don’t you briefly run through the schedule for the day with the assistants each morning, so they understand and can contribute to your plans

a complete refusal to follow instructions given by a boss is not a ''complete lack of communication'' though. You are greatly undermining its seriousness by saying this. That could be seen as bullying yes, the rolling eyes too could be seen as bullying too although that's a hard one to prove.

If it is teaching, a TA works in a class under the direction of the teacher but often the SenCo is their line manager

If it is teaching, a TA works in a class under the direction of the teacher but often the SenCo is their line manager

this is just derailing the thread, op says she is their boss so let's go with that rather than the tear apart/analyse every thread and statement an op makes.

Sorry trying to be vague to not put myself too much, not in England so no Senco yes teacher but not a traditional mainstream classroom environment. I am their manager, they, are my classroom assistants SLT are very hands off and leave the day to day routines to the teachers.

Part of me now is looking forward to going back part of me is dreading it. I know what I have to do. I’m just sad that I’ve worked with these people before and we were a happy team but they seem to have come together and have decided to be toxic. They seem to want this hard line discipline whereas I’m about nurture and building relationships, this is why we are clashing and they’ve decided to undermine me and try to bully me. I’ve tried to tell them I’ve done the research and what I’m trying to do is for the best of the children but they seem to think unless your shouting at them your soft.

but they seem to have come together and have decided to be toxic. They seem to want this hard line discipline whereas I’m about nurture and building relationships, this is why we are clashing and they’ve decided to undermine me and try to bully me. I’ve tried to tell them I’ve done the research and what I’m trying to do is for the best of the children but they seem to think unless your shouting at them your soft

ah I see. I think you have a problem there as it can be very difficult to instruct staff how to discipline kids and harder to flag/gauge what is good/bad practice. By all means if they are shouting constantly at the kids at a high level you can flag it but it can be very subjective what the word 'shouting means' or what is acceptable practice in disciplining kids.

Your view and perception of what shouting is, what relationship building entails or what is good/bad practice in the classroom can be totally different to somebody else's. So a member of slt could observe them and totally perceive it differently than you.
There are so many different views on this that it can be very difficult to flag and very difficult to pin on somebody as a big part of teaching is like parenting comes back to fundamental aspects of the teacher's personality.

Them not following orders such as correct a book/ take a group outside/ do a notice board can be flagged directly as they either did it or they didn't and the evidence is there. But saying the had bad relationships with the kids, being too firm/too lenient etc is much harder to pull them on. It can be your word vs theirs.

I had a TA that over- stepped it with, 'we usually do it like xyz...' when I was halfway through a sentence to the children, or shouting across at children who are engaged in my lesson but not sitting perfectly. I think many people see not being strict as weakness. Good teachers are able to establish clear boundaries and rules etc without raising their voices at kids. Children who are happy seem to learn more.
I would sort out a meeting with the whole team. Make it friendly but with a clear message (pre- arranged with your job share) about expectations and respecting different approaches. Speak to SLT if necessary to let them know things have slipped a bit and you are working with them to improve the working relationship.

or shouting across at children who are engaged in my lesson but not sitting perfectly. I think many people see not being strict as weakness. Good teachers are able to establish clear boundaries and rules etc without raising their voices at kids

But you'll have another person saying them not sitting perfectly as a sign they aren't engaged. There's just so many different ideas on this it's impossible to have universal agreement on this sort of stuff. Also your view of 'strict' can be totally different to the next person's. Also the 'raising their voices' is another maze, people both in a school setting and in real life have totally different ideas of what a raised voice means. I've seen teachers talking at normal level to a class and the ta said to me after ''oh my god she shouts alot'' when I didn't agree at all.

I was responding to a question from someone about how it works.

I am not questioning the OP's situation or tearing anything apart.

So not sure what that has to do with you or who made you the thread police.

I was responding to a question from someone about how it works.
I am not questioning the OP's situation or tearing anything apart.
So not sure what that has to do with you or who made you the thread police

was aimed more at everybody saying it and I said it because so many threads get derailed by side discussions that have nothing to do with the topic.

I agree as with parenting we all have different opinions and views on strictness and discipline but the children I work with are very vulnerable with severe special needs. The are struggling to understand the most basic of language so don’t need shouting at. Im saying to them you wouldn’t expect a 9 month old baby to sit at a desk and hold a pencil or share a toy so don’t give these children into a row for not being able to do it developmentally they can’t. I’ve printed off paperwork, emailed links they won’t read it. When they are shouting at them for getting up from a chair and I intervene and say no it’s ok they can wander that’s when I get the looks and the eye-rolling as they are obviously disagreeing with me. But I’m the professional in charge with the years of experience and I will not have them shouting at the children and they don’t agree with that so they’ve hanged together and obviously really dislike me now and started this almost bullying campaign. And like I said it’s really difficult when I’m only there part of the week. But I stand by my methods which are backed by the experts and research.

But I stand by my methods which are backed by the experts and research

yea but expert and research can be pretty ineffective when trying to apply it in any classroom/real life setting. The 'experts' are usually the ones with 0 real life classroom experience yet they will chunnel out advice they never have had to follow themselves. Many of the teaching inspectors who observed us on teaching practice had no classroom experience themselves but were seen as 'experts' with their phd/masters in education etc.

Likewise many of the behaviour mgmt books put out by 'experts' and the behaviour gurus who come around schools giving their talks is pretty useless and ineffective strategies. See what is working in the class and with colleagues rather than the latest expert trying to sell their book.

That is generally how forums work, whether you like it or not. And posting messages to one person telling them off for something they didn't do that was nothing to do with you won't improve matters.

Whether the children were sitting perfectly or not, is not an excuse for a TA to shout/call across the room in the middle of the lesson, interrupting the teaching. Being a TA is a different role to being a teacher and sometimes requires biting your tongue in the moment, or letting things sail by you, because it is not your classroom. If the TA notices children not sitting nicely during teaching, he/she could take note of it, and maybe speak to the teacher at the end of the lesson “I noticed little Jimmy was slumped over while you were teaching, would you want me to address that at all?” Teacher might say oh no thank you, I’ll speak to him if needed, or might say oh yes please, would you tap him on the shoulder to give him a reminder next time. It’s really not up the the TA to be calling across the classroom to reprimand a child in the middle of a lesson.

@pillow56 oh I know I’ve been doing this job a while what I meant is that I’ve done the research and am always trying out new ideas and activities to see what benefits the children. And not just new ones things I’ve used before but because they are not what the assistants like they don’t want to help. One of them hasn’t been in the job a year yet! We aren’t working with NT children either, he’s trying to mould them into NT children. I’ve spoken to SLT and it’s a wider problem and they are trying to address it across the school which is good getting courses together on ASD.