To ask what can be done immediately to take the pressure off the NHS?

[Twinklenoseblows]

I've been reading stories about people waiting 4 days in A&E, people being taken into A&E in the back of a van with a broken hip as there are no ambulances ,and doctors and nurses pleading for something to be done right now as lives are at risk. But what can be done that would make a difference within the next week or two?

Promises of more money and more staff will presumably take years to filter through and make a difference.

I guess what is worrying me beyond the immediate crisis is that some bright spark in government is going to say we need a circuit breaker lockdown to reduce flu and covid admissions for the next few months to take some immediate pressure off. The thought fills me with horror so I'm hoping there is something else.

E.g. as a very short term measure could some people be diverted to make use of any spare private GP capacity to try to reduce the number of people going to A&E who could instead be dealt with by a GP if only they could get an appointment. Or is that madness?

The last time I was in A&E was on a Saturday night. The number of drunk people who came in was unbelievable. I don't know if it's still the same now, this was about 4 years ago.

Bingo! Glad someone already said it

A few years ago, I had crippling pain in my stomach for a few days. Got a GP appointment who examined me and told me I needed an urgent scan. She said the only way to get an urgent scan was to be admitted which she arranged and told me to take myself to A&E! I went through all the usual A&E procedure, i.e. being booked in, triaged, blood tests, BP, heart trace, etc., and then once I'd "passed", I was told to take myself to the maternity ward (!?). I knew the pain wasn't in women's "bits", but I did as I was told. At maternity admission, I saw a doctor who spent about 90 minutes creating the file, working through the paperwork such as medical history, etc., and then finally examining me - I pointed to where the pain was and he immediately said I was in the wrong place as it wasn't "women's bits" and then spent ages on the phone arranging me to be admitted to a different ward, and I trotted along to that instead. Exactly the same, different doctor obviously, but at least another hour creating a different coloured file, going through medical history, etc., then he examined me and, yes, I needed a scan, so he got on the phone, spending absolutely ages, trying to get a scan appointment, for it to be finally a week away - no problem, he said, we'll admit you and give you a bed for the week, and maybe if there's a cancellation, they'll call you in earlier! Seriously? Taking up a hospital bed for a week just for a scan? I said I'd just go home and return for the appointment in a week's time! What an absolute waste of A&E and doctor's time just to book a scan appointment! It couldn't be done by the GP because they knew the "routine" scans had a longer waiting list, so the only way to getter a quicker one was being admitted! But to actually think the doctor was happy for me to block a bed whilst waiting is absurd!

That’s weird that they don’t have urgent care scans….

My young child has pus covered bleeding tonsils. GP told me to go to A and E yesterday. Today we had a 30 second phone call and a 3 minute face to face appointment to get antibiotics. Could have done that yesterday and avoided the A and E advice.

@Iamthewombat i was left in an incredible amount of pain after weight loss. If the NHS wants people to lose weight they need to at least meet halfway.

You dont write to people saying you are going to leave them in pain for another year when they have lost a lot of weight while simultaneously moaning about obesity

She said people. I deduced that she is very deluded about the people that need help from the NHS. After living the reality and seeing what is happening in hospitals I think I am more experienced and knowledgeable.

A two-tier system would be totally fair if you redefine the “have nots” as those who have no heritage in this nation and who’ve never paid in a penny (or had any forebears who did). Why should they receive a level of care that the “affluent” - i.e. people who’ve paid NI contributions all their lives as have their forebears. Why shouldn’t they reap what they’ve sown.

Anyone with eyes who has been in an A&E or maternity ward in the last 10 years knows what’s up.

I can just see it now:

Mother: "Please help us, my daughter is struggling to breathe and I don't know why".

A&E Receptionist: "Of course. But first: Where are you from?"

Mother: "Er, just down the road."

Receptionist: "No, I mean where are you FROM."

Mother (confused): "Well, I'm from Nottingham. My daughter, who BTW is still struggling to breathe, was born at this very hospital."

Receptionist: No, I mean what part of Africa are you from? Where are YOUR PEOPLE from?

Mother: "Hmm, I don't know. They didn't leave any records."

Receptionist: "Yes, but what nationality are you?"

Mother: "I was born here, I'm British".

Receptionist: "Yes but anyone WITH EYES who has been in an A&E ward in the last 10 year can tell what's up! Before we treat your daughter's breathing problem, we need to know where you're from! WE HAVE EYES, after all!"

Mother: "Don't worry, she's dead."

“The right to a family life” refers to your EXISTING family. Not to putative family members. I suggest you read more about it.

And those talking about calling in the military medics - you so realise they’re already working in and for the NHS? They’re not sitting around in a sick bay counting bandages!

As others have said, run a national awareness campaign regarding the UK’s severely underused pharmacies. Consult a pharmacist rather than phoning 111 or going to a GP as a first step.

also, open up the visa system to allow overseas-trained/located medical personnel into the U.K. The staff are clearly needed.

FWIW, I lived in France from 2008 to 2017 and have lived in the Netherlands since then. I have therefore experienced their frankly superior healthcare directly. Believe me when I say that neither of these countries (or indeed probably any other in Europe) are looking at the NHS and thinking “oh how wonderful”. Ask yourselves why they are not copying the UK. In short, it is the U.K. that needs to fundamentally change its system.

I've always been into what could be classed as reasonably 'dangerous' hobbies. Full contact kickboxing in my youth, fast cars, and now powerlifting/heavy deadlifts which can hurt the spine if incorrectly done.

However, I take BGs point. What we've been accustomed to isn't always what is strictly sensible. I'd probably class sports like rugby a little different to things like smoking/drug abuse though as they also have health benefits and are hobbies rather than addictions.

It's not dissimilar to the environmental problem which I've been thinking about a bit lately. It's unthinkable for many people to give up driving/foreign holidays/having kids, but the planet doesn't really care. It will still gradually decline until we're all fucked, whether or not we think we're entitled to xyz.

@Angelil hear, hear! No country has copied the NHS.

I don't know whether it's racist, as I don't know what your motivation is. It's certainly economically illiterate.

The problem with this view is that the state of public services is determined by two things: the amount of money going in to them (supply) as well as the amount needing to be spent (demand). Increasing population via immigration does indeed increase demand, but it also increases supply because those immigrants work and pay taxes.

So thus far, in general terms, there's absolutely no reason why increased immigration should lead to a strain on public services. Whether services improve or degrade will depend on a number of specific things, such as the demographic profile of the immigrants, the rules governing access to services and government tax and spending policies (since spending on public services isn't normally ring fenced). But overall, and as a general rule, immigration benefits the economy and the services paid for by it. It tends to increase the number of working age people paying tax in comparison to the number of children and old people who are a net drain on the system. Everyone's got an anecdote about the feckless African family next door, but there are plenty of white British families like that too and what matters is the overall picture.

That's why both Tony Blair and David Cameron knew that immigration was a necessary tool in shoring up the economy against the effects of an aging native population. It's also why Brexit, being predicated on exactly the misconception you present here, has only made matters worse.

If you really wanted a better NHS, you'd increase immigration and get rid of all the economically draining old people.

Thank you for bringing it to life so vividly. You should be a screenwriter!

Getting NHS treatment is a zero sum game. If I’ve paid into it, as have my parents, all our lives, I’d quite prefer it if my daughter was treated first before someone who has just rocked up.

Yes, I think most people will agree we need skilled labour from abroad, which will take many years to grow organically. However, these aren't the same immigrants which the gov is paying £6m a day to house in hotels, let's be honest.

Short term - govt pay to put people into private hospitals and use their beds.

• pharmacists as main point of call to triage if you see doctor.
• Online only appointments to see GP to see large volumes of patients

Long term
-Cut services to Maternity and A and E as the only free at point of entry care.

• Everything else you have to have insurance for and you have to pay for it.
• All appointments including GP you have to pay for At minimum of £25
• Re-open half way rehab homes for people who are well enough to be out of hospital but not well enough to be at home.

Net migration is up anyway post Brexit so it’s not a lack of numbers. Not sure which visas are being acquired though.

Agree in polls most people are fine with skilled workforce joining but not seeing boat issue in same light.

The 'person who just rocked up' has scarlet fever. Because she isn't treated, she dies, and in the meantime has spread it to other people, including your daughter. Your daughter is treated and therefore survives, but she is very ill for a while and misses lots of school. When she goes back, she soon misses more school, because of closures caused by outbreaks of diseases that weren't nipped in the bud because recent immigrants were not vaccinated or treated. Meanwhile, the NHS crisis gets even worse because of all the doctors and nurses, who were sent 'home', not allowed to enter in the first place, or, if you get everything you want, always lived here but never entered the professions because they were deprioritized for healthcare and education because Gran and Grandad came over on the Windrush. And imagine the 'bedblocking' problem when there are almost NO carers in the country!

There are far too many people living in this small country now, and unfortunately many take out far more than they take in (by that I mean those who could easily work or who don’t have caring commitments etc). So too many taking and not enough putting in.

The NHS is disorganised from the top down and ends up nearly always paying twice as a result of the disorganisation.

Some absolute superstars busting a gut every shift for the NHS and keeping it going, many others lazy and just stealing a living.

I could go on. But the same problems they have now aren’t all new. It’s just coming to crisis point now after a good three decades or so.

@Cherryana So basically sell off the NHS to rich people so they can make lots of money.

To clarify- I don't mean that only recent immigrants have infectious diseases; but if you make large numbers of people ineligible for treatment, on whatever grounds (and it would be large numbers if it includes not just immigrants but the children and grandchildren of immigrants), you cannot control disease. Germs don't know about national borders or people's heritage!

Net migration is up anyway post Brexit so it’s not a lack of numbers. Not sure which visas are being acquired though.

I mentioned this earlier actually.

Most are work/study visas but 230k are resettlement visas. It doesn't sound like much but between 2005-2020 the figure never rose above 7k.

Obviously, the Ukraine war has skewed figures but they only account for 130k, leaving approx 100k. It isn't a lot in isolation but it's still 14x higher than the highest figure recorded in the 15 years running up to 2020.

Of course, that figure doesn't count those currently in the process so the overall figure is way higher than in previous years I'd imagine.

By surely this just fuels the argument of those that believe they shouldn't be here in the first place?