To ask what can be done immediately to take the pressure off the NHS?

[Twinklenoseblows]

I've been reading stories about people waiting 4 days in A&E, people being taken into A&E in the back of a van with a broken hip as there are no ambulances ,and doctors and nurses pleading for something to be done right now as lives are at risk. But what can be done that would make a difference within the next week or two?

Promises of more money and more staff will presumably take years to filter through and make a difference.

I guess what is worrying me beyond the immediate crisis is that some bright spark in government is going to say we need a circuit breaker lockdown to reduce flu and covid admissions for the next few months to take some immediate pressure off. The thought fills me with horror so I'm hoping there is something else.

E.g. as a very short term measure could some people be diverted to make use of any spare private GP capacity to try to reduce the number of people going to A&E who could instead be dealt with by a GP if only they could get an appointment. Or is that madness?

I did (or didn't do) all of those. That didn't stop me developing a condition that means I'm what you so charmingly call 'a burden' on the NHS (three monthly checkups and lifetime medication).

NHS staff often give way more of themselves than they would to a private provider. I have worked for charities and worked far harder than I now do for a private company. That kind of feeling is common amongst people/ It is why I moved to the private sector, because I wanted an easier job. I get more money and it is much easier. I see nurses who talk about moving to private healthcare in the UK moving jobs out of the NHS for more money and less work.

The NHS relies on staff. Without there co-operation any major changes will fail anyway.

You were doing well with questions then bottomed out with you shouldn’t be posting 😬

I think Labour has bandwidth to do more, and I’d love to see that. I’m concerned about the direction they seem to be taking but if they drop some of those and the manifesto is something else than we’ll see.

I’m afraid many posts from Labour supporters reinforce some concerns but no not totally fixed.

Insurance type schemes - Pregnant women, parents with babies, disabled people, people with chronic health problems, the poorest, and elderly people pay more

And presumably you'd be happy with pensions and long term benefits being increased so people on already limited incomes or who are unable to work could afford this?

And at @BradfordGirl ’s comment I take my leave. This thread has turned toxic. 😂 No horse back riding or rough sports? Guess we will open up a lot of jobs as grown adults will now need nanny’s to watch them and make sure they aren’t doing anything too fun.

A two-tier system would be totally fair if you redefine the “have nots” as those who have no heritage in this nation and who’ve never paid in a penny (or had any forebears who did). Why should they receive a level of care that the “affluent” - i.e. people who’ve paid NI contributions all their lives as have their forebears. Why shouldn’t they reap what they’ve sown.

Anyone with eyes who has been in an A&E or maternity ward in the last 10 years knows what’s up.

The world has been raping the NHS for decades. In the 1980s my mum’s Australian friend used to come here to get a new pair of glasses and teeth on the good old NHS every few years. I can’t imagine she’s the only one…

I will add that I place no blame whatsoever on those who’ve used the NHS without contributing.
The government - Labour not Tory - did not protect it adequately.
It’s only human nature to take what’s on offer.

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain I am totally against an insurance scheme. The idea of spending billions to introduce a whole new layer of bureaucracy is nuts and will only benefit those who make money out of it.

@DeadlyDragon People are always keen to talk about how people should take responsibility for their health, but they ignore dangerous activities like horse riding and motorbike riding. I think either people should be coherent, or they should stop blaming individuals.

Why should I be more entitled to care because my forebears lived here? What nonsense.

And yes I have been in A&E and maternity wards in recent years and in both cases immigrants and the children of immigrants were the ones providing the care not receiving it.

@MarshaBradyo thanks for answering. I think Starmer is trying to tread a fine line between wooing the City and big business and not winding up some more left wing elements of the party. It's a tricky one I agree !
www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/03/labour-mps-press-keir-starmer-to-set-out-wealth-tax-plans This is a good article if you are interested. I agree that he will frighten off many a floating voter if he follows rhetoric from Richard Burgon who was a Corbyn acolyte. Lets hope he continues to be mindful of that !
Saying that not everyone is necessarily opposed to the super rich paying more
www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/25/millionaires-petition-rishi-sunak-to-introduce-wealth-tax

@Legallypinkish so if they went home as opposed to sleeping on the floor for four days that would prove they needed A&E right.

Except i suspect you would have come to the same conclusion for both scenarios.

To answer the original question, increase staffing in

• primary care
• social care
• mental health
• ambulance services
• Ensure support services such as labs are running 7 days per week

And the only way to attract experienced staff to make an immediate difference is to offer attractive rates of pay and conditions, and to fast track visas for overseas candidates.

I’m basing my answer on what a close relative who works for the NHS has been telling us.

It's hard to think of any effective short-term solutions beyond the following: consider your A&E needs carefully. Get your vaccines - if eligible. Wear masks in public places and don't go out and about if sick.

I know someone who works as a A&E triage nurse who says mental health issues take up a huge amount of A&E time - that definitely needs addressing. Unless someone is bleeding out or OD-ing, then A&E really isn't the best place for mental health crises.
More funding for mental health support needed to divert people away from A&E.

More minor injury centres needed.

It might seem controversial but personally I would consider charging people for care if the injury was very obviously alcohol-related. If someone drinks 10 pints and breaks their leg falling off a kerb, why should the NHS foot the bill for that?

And pay the poor nurses a living salary. Have nothing but empathy for them atm.

Pay them more!!!

We don’t need a new system, we need to spend money. If we spent as much money on healthcare as France and Germany, we might get a healthcare system as good as France and Germany.

It would cost so much more to go through a massive restructure.

Whole article here about Moroccan-born people living in UK.
51% (n=6058) in 2001 were age 30-44, so yes the exact age when their child count at home would likely maximise. Those people are still even now too young to be at the age where they are a major drain on the NHS (their median age is still << median age of indigenous born population).

Estimated total M-born living in UK = 16k-30k in 2008.
UK residents, 25k Moroccan-born in 2020 & 50k of Moroccan heritage.
Online says the Grenfell Tower building housed 600 people, so maybe that means 1000 residents in the building PP mentioned.

YY @SirMingeALot The vaccine mandate for care workers was absolute insanity. And anyone who supported this move...........well this is at least partly on them.

I agree that we shouldn’t blame individuals. Shit happens. We can’t police people’s lives and blame them for a broken system.

@Figgypudding123 People under psychiatric care are told to go to A and E if they have a mental health crisis. Many more people are taken there by the police. If someone is suicidal or has lost touch with reality, they need to go somewhere. At its most basic, where do the police take people they have talked out of jumping from a bridge? Or people they have been called to deal with who are shouting and trying to hit passer-by's in a City Centre street? When people are ill a jail cell is not appropriate.

Years ago London had a mental health A and E. Jo Brand worked there as a nurse. That seemed a brilliant idea to me. It was staffed by psychiatric nurses who could give treatment and get order assessments for sectioning if necessary. It is a shame it was closed.

The NHS is not available for use by random people from overseas. I had to use it twice for emergency care while visiting when living abroad, once for me and once for my then baby daughter. Both times I needed to fill in full details for them to reclaim costs from my home health care system. Both times the money was reclaimed, as I got letters confirming the charges had been paid.

Ah yes, if only people just did what they were supposed to do, what a perfect world that would be.

Next on the list I think you should suggest people not committing crime and people not being poor.

@BradfordGirl I take your point, but well-staffed 24 hour mental health referral services would, in many cases, be a more appropriate place of referral. It's painful just how broken the welfare state is....

In a world like that we wouldn’t even need traffic lights.😃

Maybe the 10million wasted unattended GP appointments would be a good start, followed by a similar amount of hospital out-patient appointments missed.

This. However the system needs an update. I'm pretty sure I'm some sort of blacklist for missing appointments. I got invited for a pap. Let them know I already had one in private sector so no need and person on the phone cancelled it. Got a threatening letter about missed appointment later. My dermatologist told me that she'll sent me an invite for check up. Never got another invite. Probably the new people at my flat got them. My nhs dentist sends the invites via email. I was also really surprised that my doctor sent me my paperwork (diagnosis papers, referrals) in paper form. Back in my home country all of these are through online portals.

@Rewis I remember a consultant on MN saying most of their patients were of retirement age and did not even have an email address.