Was the school right to march the supply teacher out of the school premises

[oksodthebend]

A newly qualified supply teacher, who is just at the beginning of the career and finding teaching difficult, is asked to leave the school, which they was only covering for the day in a Y6 class midway through a lesson in the morning between break and lunch and not stay until the end of the school day because SLT did not feel that the children was not safe with the teacher as the classes behaviour was out of control. Is this common practice in teaching?

The teacher after letting 2 of the children go to the toilet at the same time, forgot that they had left the classroom and they found by SLT in an empty room on their phones, having been gone for around 30 minutes.

Daily supply is completely inappropriate for an NQT (or ECT as they now are called). Where’s the programme of development, of mentoring, and support? The school should never have accepted an NQT as a supply teacher.

That. And in a classroom where the supply teacher doesn't know the names and faces of the children, and every fibre of her is trying to keep control of difficult and unknownpupils, not noticing that two have not returned, is easy for me (a highly experienced teacher who did supply for a few years) to imagine.

Supply work is HARD. NQTs really shouldn't be put in that position. After a decade of full time teaching, when I moved to casual supply, I only worked in two schools, whose structures and methods I eventually knew well, whose pupils I was able to get to know, and with leadership teams and colleagues who supported me. Even with my experience I wouldn't touch agency work in schools who didn't bother acquainting me with their structures and rules.

Yeah, six children having access to phones is not the fault of the supply teacher, for starters.

Yes @SequinsandStilettos , how supply agencies operate is just another example of how private sector involvement in public services makes things worse not better. If supply teachers were actually paid a decent wage (most aren't even paid an NQTs daily rate), then we'd have more experienced teachers opting to do supply. Instead we have have a big chunk of the money that schools pay for supply going to agencies, who pay their teachers appallingly low rates. We used to have pools of supply teachers on LAs books, who were deployed as needed. There were few private agencies, and those that did exist were forced to pay a decent rate as the LAs were paying a decent rate, given that they weren't creaming off a profit. We need to return to that model, get rid of the private parasites fleecing the tax payer, exploiting the dire situation that schools find themselves in. Taking their profits whilst schools can't afford to turn the heating on.

Another poster sending sympathy to your sister. I work in a related role but have done spells of cover recently simply because local principals have been desperate. Before Christmas was terrifying and I sense the next few weeks will be worse.

Some classes have had cover now for so long that they have an exact understanding of how much they can push ('I'm leaving. What are you going to do?') lie (I'm allowed to go to the photocopier/I've got a pass/I have to see Miss x) insinuate (am I stressing you out Miss? Are you getting stressed?) (Answer: not even slightly, but I know your usual teacher is absolutely broken and what you've done to her) threaten ('you're not allowed to stop me/speak to me/say that to me and I'm going to complain).

I've not yet been offered a way to contact the corridor team or anyone else once I'm in the room. The kids know supplies and cover are isolated. I make a point of inviting teachers from neighbouring classes in at the start of each period. It annoys some, but others are kind and support.

It's the hardest thing I have ever done and I am twice the OP's sister's age and professional confidence, and not trying to do anything other than help for a few weeks.

What’s a SLT?

Senior Leadership Team. So the Head, Deputy, and Assistant Heads. Evidently SLT in this school are seriously lacking, and if I were a parent I'd be really concerned.

There's a lot of people in this thread who seem not to be up to date with what it's like in schools at the moment. For starters, there's no such thing as an NQT anymore- it's an ECT, and they are allowed to do supply for up to 5 years before qualifying. Secondly, schools don't exactly get to pick and choose who they get sent from the supply agency in most cases- especially at the end of term, it's anyone who is willing to go!

Also, it's unlikely there will have been a class TA.

It's also basically expected that anyone who is sent out on supply is capable of basic safeguarding- such as keeping track of the students in a class.

And yes, I know it's difficult, and I do agree the school were partly at fault, especially the students having their phones on them- that isn't normal at primary.

But, as others have said, not knowing where children are is a massive risk. Last year, we had Y7s leaving the school site and truanting. It's not such a big leap that a Y6 student may do the same. Or what if they had been taken very ill in the toilets and just forgotten about?

I do think OP's sister would be better off trying to get an ECT role or a longer term supply role, where she can be better supported, but I do also think if you've passed your ITT course, you ought to be able to keep track of students in a room! As others have said, you can write names on the board, or keep a list, or run a toilet pass system AND always operate one in one out!

It makes sense to me, in an unfamiliar building, that a member of SLT would have walked her out, as well.

Seems a bit OTT, my son with SEND apparently was sent to the headteacher to show him his work and get a sticker and the teacher (who was also SENCO) realised he was still missing 45 minutes later. Sent a TA to find him and he’d gone round every classroom collecting stickers. It was told to me as a funny story which still makes me smile 10 years on.

I do agree, FWIW, behaviour in a lot of schools is awful, right now, though- and supply teachers do definitely take the worst of it.

@Postapocalypticcowgirl being a current teacher in a state comprehensive, I'm fully aware of the state of schools at the moment. I know ECTs can do supply, but it doesn't mean that they should in all circumstances. With a nicely behaved class they will be fine, but this wasn't the case here. I know full well that schools find it incredibly difficult to get supply teachers, they have to have a person in front of the class, so they use who they can get. I know there's unlikely to be a spare TA, even fewer people want the be TAs than teachers. But all that does not explain why the ECT was left with a badly behaved Year 6 class. Was every other single class covered by inexperienced supply? Was there not an experienced teacher on the building who could have taken that class? Are all their classes similarly badly behaved. The fact that SLT saw fit to use an ECT supply teacher for this particular class, smacks of very poor decision making. It's the SLT who are incompetent, they should know better. But it probably suits them to blame the behaviour problems on the "rubbish supply", rather than address it themselves.

I do think it’s quite an extreme reaction.

Of course it was awful that she forgot about them but they ultimately didn’t get hurt.

As a secondary school teacher I am very hot on not letting them out 2 at a time (it’s frowned upon even letting 1 out) but I can imagine a primary teacher wouldn’t have these strict rules.

If I was the school I would have told her it was unacceptable and to make sure it doesn’t happen again and then just not ask for her to come back.

I find you learn the most, with the more mistakes you make.

I've known teaching staff and agency escorted of the premises. We never got told the actual reason but speculation and gossip is rife when it happens

I was thrown out when I was doing a PGCE 21 years ago. 😂

Plus you mightn't know all the ins and outs of what they did @oksodthebend

I know of many people who did supply in their NQT.

They struggled to get a permanent position as they lacked experience and so did supply which also gave them a foot in the door if a job came up.

But I couldn’t have done it.
Supply is awful.

I used to have a perfect class with no behavioural issues at all.
I was out for 3/4 of the period and came back to find that the majority had got detentions and were absolutely vile to the teacher. Almost bullying her.

Although I can see in practice that of course it's wrong, if you don't know the class and there are 30 children, it might be quite hard to keep tabs on them all, especially if no TA.

@OldFan

What did you do to get kicked off your PGCE lol?

It would be interesting to hear the school's side of things.

@toocold54 Slagged off the deputy head to other staff. But she was awful.

I got a placement that suited me better after that for a while (less knobby) but teaching wasn't for me, I like my free time to be free.

It would be interesting to hear the school's side of things

I often think the same on threads like this, Pinkflipflop85 ...

Do you think the other side of the story is that they left an ECT with a nicely behaved Year 3 class? Has the bit about the badly behaved Year 6 class been made up by the teacher? Because if it hasn't, the school still made a poor choice to leave an inexperienced ECT on daily supply with a badly behaved Year 6 class, whenever happened to prompt the marching off site.

*whatever

Ordinary, well behaved children would not suddenly decide to hide for half an hour from their teacher.
It sounds like the rest of them were running rings round the teacher during that time, she probably didn't have time to notice. Hasn't every teacher sent a child out of the room at some point and forgotten they were there? No? Just me then!
The OP's sister shouldn't want to return to that school.

Naughty kids IMO. Sister is best off putting it behind her.

I mean, my post wasn't just directed at you, but...

Who should have covered the Y6 class, then? Would you take a permanent teacher away from their class to cover this class because they are badly behaved? (And tbf, we are assuming they are always badly behaved for their permanent teacher too).

Isn't that just causing disruption to two classes? Would you then ask the teacher you'd asked to cover to write cover for their own class- because I think that would annoy a lot of teachers? It would certainly annoy me.

As a one off with a particularly notorious class, I can see doing this might be the right option- but long term, it will generally upset your permanent staff, and result in a lack of stability across the school. FWIW, I've been in the situation of being the permanent member of staff pulled away from my own classes to cover badly behaved classes because "supply can't manage" and I was still held responsible for their progress etc. I don't work at that school anymore, BTW.

Schools have got to strike a balance between what is right for that particular day, and not making working conditions worse for their permanent staff.

I really do think it is basic not to lose two children for 30 minutes and do nothing about it. I accept the fact the children did this points to some serious issues within a school BUT equally, I have known classes that are well behaved for their permanent teacher be pretty poor with supply, often when the supply is not very competent themselves. I know that sounds harsh, and I do agree there are probably issues in the school as well, for two children to even think of doing this, but I don't think it's necessarily as simple as saying oh, if OP's sister had been put with a "nice" class, everything would have been fine.

Forgetting two children for half an hour it's not good . It's really that simple, the fact that they also had phones and who knows what they were up to in that room is even worse.

Were there any extenuating circumstances? Really poor behaviour, no TA, no warning of behavioural issues, no SLT support,no induction etc? If yes, then I'd also feed that back to the agency.

However you say she's really struggling with being a teacher, in which case I'd suggest she tries to find a permanent job at a supportive school where she can actually learn and gain experience, or ,sorry to be blunt, quit.

Seriously, where are these schools that have a class TA as the norm after about Y1? I know a few primary teachers who'd love to work for them!