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Original poster

Is repeating incorrect facts the same as lying?

34 replies

SausageGate · 29/12/2022 15:47

Somewhat lighthearted.

DH and I have a disagreement on this and would like to clarify. Already asked my DM and DF - they disagree with each other and one agrees with me and one with DH.

If you state a fact that isn’t true and that you should know isn’t true, is that a lie? And does it become a lie if you keep repeating it? Or if you refuse to check to see if you’re wrong and keep insisting on it?

For example, if one person’s commute is 15 miles on a 50mph road but they insist their commute only takes 10 minutes. Clearly they’re wrong - but are they lying or just incorrect? Does it become lying if they keep saying it after being corrected or challenged?

Another example, NDN is called Jack but one person thinks he’s called John. Both got a Christmas card from Jack and so should know his name. After discussing it and checking the card, both agree he’s called Jack. If the person keeps saying he’s called John, is that a lie?

Essentially, can a lie be reckless or must it be malicious?

OP posts:
Choice4567 · 29/12/2022 15:50

Yes both those examples are lies. A lie means deliberately not telling the truth

SerenaTee · 29/12/2022 15:50

If you say something you think is true but turns out to be false, that’s a mistake/you’re mistaken.

If you have proof or evidence something isn’t true but you continue to insist it’s true, then you’re lying/gaslighting.

fallfallfall · 29/12/2022 15:53

Commute example; I go the speed limit, yes it’s 45 minutes, my friend drives like an idiot and it takes them 30. It’s NOT a 30 minute commute, but he’s not lying when he says it’s 30 or me when I say 45. Difference of opinion.
John Jack it’s a joke, everyone laughs at that over whatever meal. Not malicious.

SomethingOriginal2 · 29/12/2022 15:55

Yes it's lying. If you know the truth and say something other than the truth then it's lying. Also feels kinda gasslighty, like they're pretending they don't know when you know they do.

Original poster
SausageGate · 29/12/2022 15:55

fallfallfall · 29/12/2022 15:53

Commute example; I go the speed limit, yes it’s 45 minutes, my friend drives like an idiot and it takes them 30. It’s NOT a 30 minute commute, but he’s not lying when he says it’s 30 or me when I say 45. Difference of opinion.
John Jack it’s a joke, everyone laughs at that over whatever meal. Not malicious.

I think you’ve somewhat missed the point, but thank you. It doesn’t take the person 10 minutes, they’re not driving at the 90mph it would take to do it in 10mins but they convinced themselves that it was 10 mins and then insisted on it. They think it’s not a lie to say it’s 10 minutes but the other person thinks it is a lie because they had the facts (the distance and speed) to know it couldn’t be 10 minutes.

OP posts:
SomethingOriginal2 · 29/12/2022 15:57

Although the commute thing, actually, yeah I see what pp means about how Google may say a journey takes an hour, but I can do it in 45 minutes, whereas it takes my DH an hour and a quarter.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/12/2022 16:03

You're getting het up about

  1. Somebody who speeds once they hit the 50 section or only counts the bit where they get to put their foot down. Or their spouse put the hallway clock forward 7 minutes because otherwise they'd never get out of the house on time.
  2. Somebody who may well know or grew up when Jack was a very common nickname for men actually Christened John.
Original poster
SausageGate · 29/12/2022 16:04

SomethingOriginal2 · 29/12/2022 15:57

Although the commute thing, actually, yeah I see what pp means about how Google may say a journey takes an hour, but I can do it in 45 minutes, whereas it takes my DH an hour and a quarter.

Thanks. To clarify, the person’s commute takes them 20 minutes but they think it takes 10. They’re incorrect (and accept that) - they don’t think they’re lying though, the other person thinks it’s a lie.

OP posts:
Original poster
SausageGate · 29/12/2022 16:05

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/12/2022 16:03

You're getting het up about

  1. Somebody who speeds once they hit the 50 section or only counts the bit where they get to put their foot down. Or their spouse put the hallway clock forward 7 minutes because otherwise they'd never get out of the house on time.
  2. Somebody who may well know or grew up when Jack was a very common nickname for men actually Christened John.

No one’s het up about anything 🙄

OP posts:
Fairislefandango · 29/12/2022 16:13

It's hard to say without knowing their motive for continuing to get it wrong. In both cases are you saying that the person grudgingly admits they're technically wrong and yet on some level continues to hold the same opinion and think they're right? Or is it that they absolutely admit they are wrong but keep saying the untrue thing because it fits better with some narrative they wish to perpetuate?

If it's the former, they're just deluded. If it's the latter, they are lying. Lying doesn't have to be 'malicious' as such, imo, but it does have to be deliberate.

Theredfoxfliesatmidnight · 29/12/2022 16:16

If you're knowingly/ deliberately repeating or perpetuating false information, it's a lie.

If you are repeating or perpetuating false information without realising, it's ignorance/ stupidity.

Wonnle · 29/12/2022 16:16

Is this thread

A bollocks

B bollocks

C complete bollocks

Wonnle · 29/12/2022 16:17

Sorry are you Donald Trump ?

Original poster
SausageGate · 29/12/2022 16:18

Wonnle · 29/12/2022 16:16

Is this thread

A bollocks

B bollocks

C complete bollocks

Whatever smug, witty remark you were supposed to be making has gone over my head. What point are you trying to make exactly?

OP posts:
RandomPerson42 · 29/12/2022 16:18

As has been said above, Jack is actually short for John.

Just like…

Daisy and Peggy are short for Margaret
Sally is short for Sarah
Polly is short for Mary
Chuck is short for Charles
Buffy and Betty are short for Elizabeth

etc.

imho it would only be a lie if known to be false, i.e. an intentional falsehood.
A lie is different to an untruth.

ElspethTascioni · 29/12/2022 16:18

Jack is a nickname for John #missespointofthread

WhenYouWalkThroughTheGarden · 29/12/2022 16:19

Is the one with the commute always ten minutes late for work?

Original poster
SausageGate · 29/12/2022 16:20

Jesus, it was an example. For the avoidance of doubt, the NDN is really called Alice but the person thinks their name is Helen. 😂

OP posts:
LondonQueen · 29/12/2022 16:22

Both of those examples are lies, but just because a commute takes you 15 minutes, doesn't mean it takes someone who drives faster than time. I used to live in the same area as a colleague and would arrive much earlier despite taking the same route as she drives like miss daisy whereas I'm a bit of a girl racer.

WendelineTestaburger · 29/12/2022 16:23

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

AliceOlive · 29/12/2022 16:26

If you know something isn’t true, but keep saying it anyway, you are lying. If you don’t know you are lying when you say untrue things, then you probably need professional help.

I suspect most people who do this fail at personal awareness and responsibility in many facets of their lives.

lottiegarbanzo · 29/12/2022 16:26

I think you're mixing up lying and being mistaken. People can be repeatedly, incorrigibly mistaken, because they have imperfect memories.

Many people make stuff up then believe it themselves. Some people just don't seem to have space for uncertainty in their heads. They'd rather believe a guess than acknowledge that they're guessing.

Psychology is more complex than you allow.

Lying is deliberate. Mistakes are not deliberate misrepresentations. Suppositions and their representation are more interesting territory.

Jack and John are the same name, (like Harry & Henry etc).

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/12/2022 16:27

SausageGate · 29/12/2022 16:20

Jesus, it was an example. For the avoidance of doubt, the NDN is really called Alice but the person thinks their name is Helen. 😂

You mean you were lying?

Here's a way to solve the conundrum then. Were you lying about the names maliciously? You know they weren't the names - and there's more than one person called Alice or maybe Helen or have changed their name from one to the other or prefer their middle name (etc, etc) in the world, so it's hardly outing.

watchfulwishes · 29/12/2022 16:27

There are lies and then there is just talking bollocks. Technically your examples are both lies, but I would just Hmm at them as neither affect me. People do convince themselves of all sorts of crap. Presumably I do that sometimes too, but wouldn't know it!

Original poster
SausageGate · 29/12/2022 16:27

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/12/2022 16:27

You mean you were lying?

Here's a way to solve the conundrum then. Were you lying about the names maliciously? You know they weren't the names - and there's more than one person called Alice or maybe Helen or have changed their name from one to the other or prefer their middle name (etc, etc) in the world, so it's hardly outing.

Show quote history

😂

OP posts: