Is repeating incorrect facts the same as lying?

[SausageGate]

Somewhat lighthearted.

DH and I have a disagreement on this and would like to clarify. Already asked my DM and DF - they disagree with each other and one agrees with me and one with DH.

If you state a fact that isn’t true and that you should know isn’t true, is that a lie? And does it become a lie if you keep repeating it? Or if you refuse to check to see if you’re wrong and keep insisting on it?

For example, if one person’s commute is 15 miles on a 50mph road but they insist their commute only takes 10 minutes. Clearly they’re wrong - but are they lying or just incorrect? Does it become lying if they keep saying it after being corrected or challenged?

Another example, NDN is called Jack but one person thinks he’s called John. Both got a Christmas card from Jack and so should know his name. After discussing it and checking the card, both agree he’s called Jack. If the person keeps saying he’s called John, is that a lie?

Essentially, can a lie be reckless or must it be malicious?

If you say something that's incorrect and you know it's incorrect but repeat it anyway as if it's true, then yes you're lying.

On the other hand, if you say something that's incorrect but you didn't realise that it's incorrect, then no you're not lying. You're mistaken though but not lying. Lying is deliberate.

Post number 2 and the favourite word of Gen Z makes an appearance......Gaslighting.

Gaslighting is not a GenZ word.

As has been said above, Jack is actually short for John

It's not though, is it? Think about it.

OP, I can't believe how many people have completely misunderstood your post. It's both baffling and depressing.

This is such an interesting question OP!
I totally get your examples. It's sort of - low level importance stuff that makes you a bit confused as to why someone is not interested in being truthful.
I'd go further and question (in my mind!) where else they were being frugal with reality tbh!
I assume you know these specific people irl so not directing this at them at all but maybe some people get a minor thrill out of it. A bit bizarre maybe but I have definitely been on nights out before where I've pretended to have a totally different life!
Following for other ideas though.

I would call those inaccuracies rather than lies. Loads of people say "I moved to Chelmsford - it's only a 40 minute commute, you know", and I don't say "LIAR! LIAR! Door to door it's at least an hour, and I can PROVE it!". And if I were calling a random neighbour the wrong name and my DP dug out a card and said "SEE? I TOLD you his name was Jack", I might keep calling the neighbour John just for the hell of it.

It would annoy me to be around someone who got wound up about stuff like this and kept correcting me and trying to make me say their "correct" or "Non Lying" version.

Sometimes when people have inadvertently said something incorrect, like underestimating their commute, they're embarrassed at being corrected so stick to the original version. It's less a lie in the traditional sense, and more of a refusal to accept the truth or admit they're wrong.

Its not a simple inaccuracy if it can't possibly be true and its really obvious. If you tell me you commute from Edinburgh to London in an hour, that is patently and obviously not true, and not possible. It doesn't matter if you have somehow managed to convince yourself it is, does it?

People, and I mean generally men, who talk absolute nonsense and expect everyone to nod along with them are extremely annoying idiots. I don't see why we should nod along and let them prattle on with their nonsense unchalleged