To expect customary gifts to be facilitated? (LPA)

[JoeWicksHair]

Sorry this is loooong 😵‍💫
My mum has advanced dementia. Lots of difficult wider family dynamics but mum & I (plus my children) were always close when she was well. The relationship became confusing as her dementia progressed as she was in denial, hid it well & I had no idea she was ill so unfortunately I took her odd behaviour personally & for a while felt very hurt by various actions so we saw each other less for a time.
I don't live very local to mum either (about half hr+ away) but siblings who all live minutes away and her husband (who isn't my dad or siblings dad) were aware she was ill, with dementia, said nothing & watched as her relationship with us became damaged due to the misunderstanding. During this time they also arranged an lpa for mum which they all control (as 2x attorneys & 2x deputies). To this day I 100% believe mum was tricked onto signing this, I reported to opg at the time but without hard evidence they weren't interested.
Once the husband / siblings had completely secured us on the outside, I was told about mums dementia and the lpa. Since then I've had to bend to suit them just to see Mum as they controlled access constantly. Like being allowed 1 visit every 6-8 weeks with notice, as they arranged a routine whereby mum was 'busy' at all other times I could visit with my children at weekends so we only had a possible option during school holidays. It's been awful but I figured any contact was better than none, which I knew would happen if I challenged things plus I can't afford court.
Things carried on like this for a number of years until recently when it came to light her husband had been physically abusing her, after an emergency admission to hospital for an injury which almost killed mum (husband denied any knowledge of that particular injury & police couldn't prove he'd caused it) they happened to find injuries all over mums body areas usually covered in clothing. He admitted it, but claimed those were due to his clumsy caregiving & not done in malice. Police couldn't prove otherwise so charges against him were dropped.
However mum is now under safeguarding and been removed from the family home, she legally has to reside in a care home now. The joy of which is we can now see Mum when we want, equal footing to my siblings & opportunity to some sort of relationship / nicer memories with her for my children.
While mum was well, we did gifts like other ppl usually do. Bday, Christmas, Easter etc. When it was finally revealed to me that mum had dementia her husband stopped all gifting from her to me however continued something modest towards my children. Because of this I didn't challenge this (as him not managing mums affairs as she'd have wanted him to), although she'd have been upset to know he was ignoring me on her behalf, because I felt he'd have stopped us seeing Mum at all by always being busy when I asked or just ignoring my requests. I felt my children receiving a gift they saw as being from their nan was too important to risk losing in terms of what it meant to their perception of that relationship.
However, this is the first Christmas since the abuse etc came to light. I no longer have to appease her husband so have nothing to do with him since. He is a nasty piece of work. Bizarrely from what I have been told by mums social worker & carehome staff my siblings are still in cahoots with him, I can only believe this is due to a financial motivation.
This Christmas however also marks the 1st time he has not facilitated a gift from my mums estate for my children. This is a change from what is usual & clearly is him acting in his own interests. I don't think this should be allowed if you're managing someone's finances under an lpa? You have to honour their wishes etc? The fact his change has followed only after his own behaviour coming to light & theres been no negative change in our relationship with mum demonstrates this is a result of his personal choice not acting for mum. If anything our relationship with mum is infinitely better now we can see her more.
I've long wondered if I did the right thing by not insisting I be gifted something for my bday & Christmas on principle. Does it set a precedent for future issues like inheritance? I'm also really worried they tricked mum to signing an amended will at the time the lpa was done. Mum had some understanding at the time but they'd not had her get a formal diagnosis at that point as they were managing her between themselves so on medical records it's not clear where she was at back then. However I spoke to her several times after I'd found out & she was adamant there was no lpa & that she would never sign one. I drew up documents to revoke the registered lpa but she was adamant there was no lpa so didn't sign.
So my Q is this: can & if so how should I challenge the lpa attorneys making a change for their own personal reasons not making customary gifts to myself & her grandchildren? Especially given the ones to grandchildren were always previously done so no cause to change.
For full picture, the sibling who is also a main attorney also has children and I'm sure they will be getting customary gifts as mums other grandchildren as will my siblings as other children. Where we now all get nothing.
The lpa not being executed to the true spirit of the donor is my main concern especially with regards to my children who felt rejected again by this happening; to them their nan being felt not to have given a gift hurt them even though I tried to explain the bigger picture of her relying on other to do this for her who hadn't done what she'd have wanted, the fact of having been pushed out of their nans life for years previously means they already don't feel very secure in how she felt about them as they only remember her during illness including the strange years when we didn't know she was ill. The reality is she adored them & wouldn't want them (or me) left out. What can I do? What is the risk in doing nothing?
Also less urgent but regarding a potential change of will since mums been ill, I'm unlikely to know until mum passes but is there anything I should do? I have known for about 30 years what mums will was to be so would know if an actual one emerges disadvantaging us it would have been obtained by deception.
(I should add, although I have no contact with mums husband or my siblings particularly now they are completely capable of getting gifts to us, in fact her husband randomly dropped off a gift to my children from my sister through the letterbox but left nothing from my Mum to any if us. So what I'm saying is., bring no contact since he almost killed my mum doesn't mean he can't facilitate gifting.
All Googles lead to Qs about lpa gifting in different scenarios to ours.
Help 🤞

Very long. Sounds like a very difficult situation. But I can't help think why would you expect the man who tried to kill your mum to buy your children presents? He's not a nice man. He's not going to do it, and why would you expect/want him to?

If your children aren't old enough to understand that your mum is too poorly to buy them a present, then buy them some yourself and just say they are from your mum. If she has advanced dementia, this is likely to be her last Christmas.

Get legal advice about the will.

Bloody hell, there's a post strike on, you could tell them that if you have to.

But imo you have WAY more of an issue than gifting and it's bizarre this is such a thing.

All the best and positivity

I am absolutely lost for words that after everything I have just read, your main concern is somebody spending your mothers money on presents for your children. I am not surprised that your siblings froze you out, you sound absolutely self absorbed and frankly I am disgusted.

Bizarrely from what I have been told by mums social worker & carehome staff my siblings are still in cahoots with him, I can only believe this is due to a financial motivation. highly unprofessional if so, especially if she'd been moved due to safeguarding from him.
But your biggest issue seems to be MONEY and GIFTS! 🤔

I would also add, my sister had a mini stroke about five years ago. She recovered well enough to set up POA and chose me as her sister and a respectable accountant to be that person, she was concerned about having another incident. In the end she didn’t get it signed properly and it wasn’t effective and she did in fact become incapacitated but there was no POA in place.

But even if there had been, my job would have been to protect her assets, to ensure they were well used towards her care if need be. Not to buy me flipping Christmas presents just because she always did and always would have had she been able.

So I say it again, you are the one that is money motivated and I expect your siblings know it and moved to protect your mother from you.

Attorneys have to act in the best interest of the subject of the lpa. That's it. There's no rule about carrying on gifts or traditions.

Giving you gifts is not in HER best interests. So no, they don't have to do that.

My mum gifts to her grandchildren monthly, but they all know that if she loses capacity and I have to take over her finances, it will stop. Because despite her being able to afford it and having done it for a couple of years, it's not in HER best interests, so as attorney I would not be able to continue it.

I think this misses the point that gifts are still being given from her assets, but only to those who are in the DH’s favour. I.e. her estate is being used to her DH’s advantage, not to hers. Which is a form of financial abuse.

OP doesn’t have much standing in this, it’s not as though the gifts have been her only concern. She was bothered about the LPA initially and has already tried to get it rescinded before any of this happened. The gifts probably seem, to her, to be her only way to try and force her family’s hand into recognising their role as acting in her mum’s interests whether or not it is good for them individually or in their relationships with each other.

It’s incredibly frustrating and scary to see a loved one be subject to the whims of family who you think are not concerned about trying to step outside of themselves to consider their charge’s best interests. They’ve missed her husband harming her and don’t seem concerned about the fact someone who would do that is still directing where her money goes. It’s not surprising OP is concerned. The systems we have in place seem to make it very hard to have concerns investigated before something goes horribly wrong. I’m not sure if it’s possible to change that system without making the whole issue of LPA’s so bureaucratic and unwieldy they don’t do anyone any good. But it is really hard to be on the outside of it and have worries about how it’s being used.

She is not dead, she doesn’t have an estate at this point. As she is married of course her husband has access to their marital funds.

Forget the gifts, OP, they’re not important. What is important is that a man who has physically abused your Mum so severely that she ended up in hospital is one of her attorney. Surely there must be a way of getting him dropped as an attorney give that she’s under safeguarding now? One of the deputies needs to take his place snd perhaps you could become one of the attorneys/a deputy instead.

I don’t know the legalities but you must seek legal advice on this, your Mum can’t gave this abusive man controlling her affairs.

Couldn't read it all, but honestly you have much bigger issues than not receiving gifts from your mum's estate. If you think it's so important in facilitating a relationship between your DM and dc, then you should buy them.

I'm sorry you're in this situation OP, it sounds harsh. Contrary to what some other posters seem to think, it sounds as though you do care for your mum, and it doesn't necessarily seem about monetary gain. I would be just as dismayed and annoyed that someone who has abused my mum would be in control of such an important aspect of her life. I would try and seek legal advice if I were you.

Of your main worry is your children feeling rejected, just buy them something yourself and say its from grandma. My mum has advanced dementia and that's what we do.

Estate doesn’t exclusively refer to the dead people’s assets, it can be used for the living too.

You make a fair point about her husband having access to any joint funds. And if that is where gifts are coming from, rather than being authorized through the LPA from the mum’s personal funds or any income she has received since becoming incapacitated, then it would not be a breach.

The trouble is all OP has expressed concern about, is not getting presents.

I haven’t been so sickened since yesterday and the poster that was fawning over her dad buying her a pram and other nice things after abandoning her mother, her sister and herself 25 years ago.

What a bizarre post.

I think you're being greedy.

Her estate is probably supporting the expenses of her residential care.

All you're worried about is presents from your mum. This is odd.

I don’t see why, if your mum can afford the gifts, you would want to stop them? Acting in her best interests doesn’t mean stopping all unnecessary spending.

Yes, this is far more important, and is the thing you should be focusing on.

But I understand how you feel about the gifts. I had a similar situation when my mum became infirm. At first my aunt would very kindly take her shopping and help her to choose gifts for us (children & grandchildren), but as mum’s mobility got worse and she had to move to a care home, my aunt couldn’t manage anymore. Despite understanding why, it did hurt a bit - more as a symbol of what was happening than the actual lack of a gift. I suspect that is what you are feeling here.

Goodness, how self absorbed. Dementia is one of the cruellest things to happen to a person and you’re concerned about “gifting”?

See this could easily be (from your siblings side) that you dropped your mum the moment she appeared to become difficult. Living half an hour plus away, isn’t far. That’s how far I live from my Dad.

They went through the early stages of diagnosis and chose not to involve you because you had distanced yourself. The injuries to your Mum, your siblings may believe her husbands story. Some one not trained to be a carer, could (unintentionally) cause bruising. Though it’s right she has been taken out of the situation and provided with adequate care.

You may be being frozen out as you chose to withdraw at a critical time. You haven’t been there for the day to day, so they don’t want to include you. It may not be fair. But I can see how from their point of view, it happens.

You talk about them being in ‘cahoots’ with her husband. What does that actually mean? They still have contact with him? They still treat him as family? The caters believe all her family, apart from you, are not working in her best interests but do nothing but gossip to you. That’s really poor. One of my aunts wasn’t acting in my Grandads best interests and the Home worked with (I think) Adult social services to our things in place to protect him. That Aunt was banned from taking him out. Then eventually visiting him when he was alone in his room.

You also say everyone is only acting in certain ways to get your mums money. But you want to force, the man you believe tried to kill your mum to buy you all presents. Because she wouldn’t have done. Again, my granddad would have got my kids presents when he was well. When he was ill, I didn’t even contemplate that my kids still should be getting them. That wasn’t a concern.

I am not saying this is how it is. Just that your side, is not the only side. But the presents is a non issue.

Because when you have power of attorney, it is not your job to decide how they might have wanted to spend their money. Your duty is to act in their financial best interest and buying gifts for other people is never, ever in that persons financial best interests.

OK to clarify a few points...
When I say were over half hour away, that's via a motorway section notorious for issues etc, so often unpredictability longer. It's about 25 miles. My car is ancient & I am a lone parent who has to account for money & my time carefully. Plus, i have had no other person to help with my children so everything i do has always had to be en masse with them. So I perhaps haven't had the freedom some people assumed to zip back & forth. When mum began acting oddly, ie withdrawn, not interactive with my kids to play which upset them, apathetic to everything, no enthusiasm to see us like she was going thru the motions, it came across like she was fed up of helping support us. She was only early 60s at the time, no history of dementia in the family, I had no reason to look deeperand i had my own distractions trying to keep my head above water. I asked many times in different ways if something was up but mum didn't share. I believe this is very common in dementia patients in denial & I suspect she thought she was trying to protect me from more to cope with as I was in the midst of a very difficult phase of my own life which mum understood having been a lone parent herself year ago.
Her husband is now only allowed restricted visiting to mum when he is chaperoned in a communal area between set hours each day. I'm astounded even this is allowed. His abuse wasn't heavy handed caring despitehis claim, he admitted he deliberately hurt her as pain was the only language she now understood. He still maintains this pov.
If I was only bothered about money I would've played things very differently. For years when we saw mum on our infrequently permitted visits she'd be sent out the door as she stood. Ie no funds (sometimes not even a coat in winter but i kept in in my boot for mum). So I was paying for everything. This might not register as a thing if you're OK financially, but we live in poverty. An extra £10 on entry to NT grounds & £4 on a coffee impacts. We couldn't come back to mine as it was too far for mum so I had to spend on doing activities. I never once asked for money even just to cover mums own expenditure which would've been completely reasonable.
The issue here is the change in behaviour honouring mums wishes based on past precedent. I feel now her husband can't exert his power over mum towards us by controlling our relin seeing her, he's done this to have an impact a different way. And it feels like an abuse of the responsibility of being an attorney to behave according to his own wants rather than mums.
For the record, they are very comfortable financially. Mum was the higher earner too so money funds aren't the issue. Plus past gifts have been £20 per child so we aren't talking greed here like it's hundreds. He'd spend that on a bottle of alcohol at the drop of a hat, it's insignificant to them but meant a lot to my kids to see themselves getting that from their nan. It's a weeks food shopping for us if I sub it instead, so not something I could do.
However the whole point to me is the principle, and precedent it sets. I don't gwnerally think in a calculated way, I mainly live in the day I'm in & I didn't see any of their controlling changes being laid to plan. So I'm worried if this is also part of some other move to exclude us financially down the line. Which mum wouldn't have wanted.
It would be odd if I didn't consider it surely? Given their past scheming. Rather than odd to think about it.
Mum is now safe & I am back in the loop with SS & have a good relationship with the carehome, so I don't have to worry about those things as such, but I can assure the criticisers money is 100% not the only thing I am concerned about or things would've played out very differently before now. This is a concern right now due to a recent change in a situation that's been ongoing for years.

So why have social services and the care home not initiated an adult concern referral and investigation to revoke the powers from her husband if they agree with you? We've had patients in where there's been similar concerns and then after investigation and back to court. The local authority has taken over powers, however this is Scotland so may be different. But I am very sure the LA if they had powers would agree with @Aprilx and not spend your dms money on presents for family.