Is this sleeping arrangement safe? (Child and Dog related)

[HumanandDogParent]

I have a DD7 and a 9 month old dog (poodle breed, small to medium size). I am a single parent, DD has autism and most nights we still co-sleep (or DD would be up and down all night, although this is something we are going to start working on in the New Year with professionals).

When I first got the dog (at 3 months old) he was crate trained however he now sleeps in the kitchen and very occasionally in my bed when DD isn’t here. However, the last week or so, he has ended up falling asleep in bed with both me and DD and rather than disturbing him I have just left him there until the morning. He is good as gold in general, no issues with him whatsoever, and when he does sleep on the bed he will sleep at the end of the bed and literally not move a muscle until I get up in the morning so he doesn’t ever disturb me etc.

It has made me think about whether to just let him continue sleeping on there seeing as it’s been going well - I don’t mind him being there and DD doesn’t mind either - however I’ve had comments off some family members about not making a habit of it and him needing to go back into his own bed. He does still go back in his own bed in the kitchen when we go out and he doesn’t whine or refuse or anything like that, but I think they are more concerned about safety for my DD - for example, one of them mentioned about him suffocating my DD even though she is 4/5 times the size of him 🙄

Part of me knows that is stupid and extremely unlikely to happen given my DD’s age too, she’s not exactly a baby, but the other part is niggling away in my mind making me paranoid.

Any advice welcome please??

This is clearly a case where you think you are right and won't be persuaded otherwise.

I really wouldn't worry.

MN is very extreme when it comes to dogs. IRL most people I know have their dogs in/on their beds overnight without a single issue. A small poodle type dog is highly unlikely to cause any damage even if it is disturbed.

I know someone who was turned on by their dog because it thought they were trying to take its food. And another who was savagely attacked by her brothers dog - turned out it had a brain tumor and its behaviour shifted like that and never went back. Only you can decide it its worth your child being killed or forever scarred. Yes maybe the risk is small, but its there.
I appreciate this info is US based but this is the sort of general info around dogs biting. Click/enlarge to read. It states kids are more likely to be bitten, stay away from dogs when sleeping, never leave unsupervised:

@Purplechicken207 Thank you for your post, this isn’t being argumentative btw but I wanted to point it out about the first example you gave - that was most likely a result of resource guarding that the dog was never trained out of - that’s not an issue with my dog or something that he does - I will take the rest of it into consideration though thanks for posting the photo!

If by ‘extreme’ you mean aware of statistical risk factors that contribute to childhood dog bites, yes.

or at least some of us are.

I’m not saying I’m going to let him sleep on the bed every night because he is perfect etc

No one is saying you are arguing for this. That is an attempt to reduce everyone’s criticism of your approach, by making their viewpoint sound extreme

I’m just saying that I’m generally a very safe dog owner

“Generally” doesn’t fit my threshold for risk around a young child, but as we’ve established quickly already in this post, you will do you. And others may disagree.

I don't allow my dog on my bed. It's about boundaries. As a rule of thumb letting them sleep on your bed allows them to think they are equal to you and there can be conflicts when you do want them off the bed and they don't want to get down. I certainly wouldn't encourage it with a dominant breed.

A small poodle type dog is highly unlikely to cause any damage even if it is disturbed.

that’s probably what the parents in this study thought about their shih tzu’s and Yorkshire terriers, right before they took their kids to hospital with dog bite injuries

Reisner IR, Nance ML, Zeller JS, et al. Behavioral characteristics associated with dog bites to children presenting to an urban trauma center. Inj Prev 2011; 17:348-353.

@SavoirFlair do you happen to have a dog by any chance?

Please read about dog social behaviour from a source more current than the 1960s

@JoyBeorge I wouldn’t consider a 8kg poodle who is the most submissive dog I have ever met - a dominant breed 😅

I’m not concerned about him being rolled on or biting because I know how big my bed is, how the layout is where everyone sleeps
**
Then why are you concerned about him suffocating your child?

@AltitudeCheck when he first gets on the bed he wants to come and lay up on the pillows with us - but then after being told to stay down the end - that’s where he stays all night until the morning when he is given permission to come and say hello - that’s where it stemmed from I think!

You should probably also read about dog social behaviour. Submissive and dominant dogs don’t exist.
this is a good outline dogbizsuccess.com/danger-dominance-theory/

We have owned dominant, giant breeds (or should say I grew up with them and DH has owned them) none have bitten. My parents JRT was a grumpy bastard in his latter years, but us all. We lived him, I wasn’t young so we kept him but you just remembered never put your face by him and wear slippers at all times!

My Lab has nightmares or doggy dreams, I wake him up, if he’s asleep and I’m going to bed, I give him a little nudge to wake him up, he’s placid, he’s lovely, I know him. If I did it to my old JRT he would rip my face off.

Only you know your child and dog. Only you can make the call. Things may change as the dog ages/has aches or pains.

It’s your choice.

PS mn hates dogs

*bit us

@FurAndFeathers I think that is just one piece of information and not everyone agrees - my dog has a fantastic vet and a fantastic walker who trained police dogs for many years - and both are very experienced and have a lot of knowledge and very respected in the area - and they still agree with the idea of dominant and submissive dogs

The fact you're chopping and changing his routine to suit yourself is the worrying thing here.

He either sleeps on your bed. Or he sleeps in his 'safe place' crate. Not being booted from one to the other depending on if you have your child with you or not.

@GreenFingersWouldBeHandy not all dogs sleep in the same place every night, he doesn’t have a crate anymore, other nights he sleeps in his bed in the kitchen which he is quite happy to do. Dogs who have the roam of the household might choose a different sleeping place every night so that’s rubbish I’m sorry

Then they are pretty much 80 years out of date.

Its not surprising - police rely on hierarchies themselves and vets are generally terribly trained in behaviour and know less about it than most trainers.

they are of course at liberty to disagree with science in the same way one people believe the earth to be flat.

I can guarantee you that neither of them are knowledgeable or respected in clinical animal behaviour/ APTC circles if they believe in dominance theory. It was scientifically debunked years ago.

@FurAndFeathers that’s just your opinion I’m afraid and unless you can say you’re more qualified than a vet and dog behaviourist and trainer, I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one!

I think it’s a risk OP & one that I wouldn’t take. But then I’m one of those people who treat my dogs as dogs not fur baby’s and shudder at the thought of sharing my bed with them. In years to come what are you going to do when your dog is old and possibly incontinent? Will you still let it sleep in your bed or would you rather be kept awake by it howling inconsolably because it doesn’t understand why it’s been banished?

@HumanandDogParent

i’m honestly starting to think you just posted for an argument.

you posted under the pretence of being concerned about you child being smothered by a dog that sleeps at the bottom of the bed 🙄

disagreed there’s any risk of biting, disagreed with dog behaviour science, disagreed with poster who has given you evidence-based advice on creating a safe den for your dog.

you’ve basically disagreed with every suggestion or piece of advice given.

I assume you’re just bored

I wouldn't have any concerns at all tbh , my dogs have slept on the bed since forever and never had any issues . As for biting when woken that's never happened with any dog in 50hrs .

@FurAndFeathers I’ll take that as confirmation that no, you’re not a dog expert like you’re trying to make out that you are. I won’t be replying to your comments anymore, it’s getting a bit boring