To think the water companies should be renationalised?

[jaundicedoutlook]

No tap water in Tunbridge Wells and other parts of Kent since Thursday.

SE Water set up a half arsed couple of bottle stations that ran dry within hours. No proper information on their website about what the issues are and what they are doing - just generic posts about trying to sort it out. Typically we’re getting an hour of tap water in the morning then dry taps. In the meantime they have paid out millions in dividends.

They are a total shambles and yet another example of Britain becoming a basket case.

Is it unreasonable to think the government shouldn’t tolerate this, strip them of their licence, and bring the whole thing back into public ownership?

This

My trust in governments, whichever and whoever they are, is shot to pieces.

Putting utilities back in the hands of the government I think would be a big mistake given their ineptitude at running the NHS, DVLA and Passport control etc. All underfunded, all poorly managed, all vital to the country and being let to go rotten day by day.

At least when things are badly managed by the government you get a chance to kick them out and have a different government every few years. When things are run by private companies, you have no say or influence over their decision making.

There's no way we can make water companies or energy suppliers change their business practices or invest in upgrading or even maintaining the infrastructure that's needed to keep things working. They don't want to reduce their profits by spending.

This would be my concern, i do agree that the supply of water shouldnt be for profit, but bloody hell its probably safer. If we ever manage to get a competent government in power then it should be considered imo.

Also although gov don't run for profit they do still aim to do everything as cheaply as possibly, often to the detriment of the service so I don't think it's necessarily a saving grace.

Hmm and the government have done such a good.job with the NHS.
Yes let's of services that are privatised are not great but again Government allows big companies to get away with all sorts of crap.

As someone who works in the water industry and not the company you have issues with (mine not perfect either) I can say that the people who work in them work hard and do their upmost to provide a great service and as with most things people/customers don't really understand the water and water recycling treatment process (I didn't and still could never hope to fully) yes water that falls from the sky is free but are you going to drink it like that from your water butt for example? What will you do with the sewage you create from your home?

It isn't just the supply side issues that are a problem. The number of releases of untreated sewage into UK Rivers and seas taking place each year is an utter disgrace and leading to pollution and environmental harm. This is a direct result of lack of investment.
Last summer I couldn't swim off the coast in August, in a peak tourist location because of a warning of water quality after high rainfall as sewage had been pumped out to sea ( I check water quality before I swim, lots of tourists clearly hadn't).

Same location had a hosepipe ban in the autumn and now has properties without water due to thawing pipes.
To quote, if you aren't angry - you haven't been paying attention! Urgent reform of standards needed to protect water quality and support customers, not sure if that's best done via nationalisation or just stronger regulation that holds private companies to account.

Incredible...

We have a choice of govts, you don't always have to keep voting Tory?

Are we really saying that despite most countries having a nationalised water industry, we, uniquely in the UK cannot run a water industry.

Water industry made £2.8 billion profit last year.

At least, as one pp said, there is accountability with state ownership, now there is none.

Yes.

Yep Wales has issues too not sure why people think it’s that much better

The sewage works could be updated but the bill payer will foot the cost - that’s the way the license works, the water companies agree with the regulator how much they are going to invest in their assets - then it goes on your water bill - the money is not going to come from the water companies with no pay back. The cost is eye watering that is why no one wants to deal with it - the regulator would have to agree they can invest and charge back to the customer. Northern Ireland’s water is publicly owed and they can’t get the Gov to make the investment for them either. The sewage works were not designed to deal with the increase in rain water - hence why they were allowed to dump excess into waterways - it’s horrendous but no one wants to grasp the nettle.

I disagree. Agree with pp who said which company IS running well?

amp.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/09/southern-water-fined-90m-for-deliberately-pouring-sewage-into-sea

They are a complete disgrace.

The entire business model of hiving off monopolies to the private sector is broken.

Exactly.

State control of monopolies, while very far from being a perfect option, did at least mean that if the government were running the nationalised industries badly, you had your vote. With privatised monopolies there isn't even that. It's not like you can take your business elsewhere with water, so they can continue to be as shit as they like because the market's hardly going to punish them. It's the worst of both worlds.

Southern Water were fined £90million - you don't think that's being punished?

Here's the latest report - looks like Southern haven't improved much.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021

Must say though Gov crisis after crisis tells me voting doesn't make any difference either - look at the state the NHS is in - that didn't happen overnight - the electorate kept voting in the Tories - no one wants to pay the social care bill - gov after gov have tried to push it through but the electorate do not want to spend the money and if the water companies were nationalised no one would want to pay for the upgrade either.
The problem we have in the UK is that we don't want to pay for anything, we want everything on the cheap - and whilst we have that mentality we keep voting in a Gov that we deserve and have shit services.

It isn't the market punishing them, no. The market punishing them would look like people being able to vote with their feet, and that's not possible with monopolies. Which is why privatised monopolies are such an inherent shitshow by their very existence. As I said, it's the worst of both worlds.

Proper regulation and the option if they fail of being nationalised without compensation would probably be just as effective.

It would not be first in the queue to be renationalised for me- train companies and BT/Openreach would come higher up my list.

Of course the water companies should be renationalised and without compensation as they have paid out gigantic dividends to shareholders and avoided protecting our rivers through frequent discharge of untreated sewage. Privatisation was a Tory scam as evidenced by the monopolistic system they created.

Train service is woeful. Try driving from London to Scotland - on no occasion do you ever arrive even close to on time - there are always massive delays - everything in this bloody country is running on its last legs, the NHS in the toilet, education system is the same, £30-£45 billion on a new sewage system - is that the priority? - the country requires a massive amount of investment - where does it come from? - the Gov do not have a bottomless pit of money - they will have to borrow from somewhere, taxes won't cover it. I'm just being practical - the Tories have reduced this country to a shoestring budget - it'll take decades to fix.

In terms of cost - Yes upgrades cost huge sums of money. But we are paying in so many ways at present. Loss of blue flag beaches has an impact on tourism spend in destinations. The current high phosphate levels in rivers is leading to hundreds of thousands of new homes across the country being unable to gain planning permission (not all down to water companies but they are a contributor) and the wider environmental cost as a whole. Perhaps we need a low cost loan scheme from government to allow the companies to invest over a long period of time and do the works required, but surely not at the same time as those private companies are making millions in profit.

Absolutely agreed. Ours is one of those who dumps sewage into the sea every 5 mins and seem wholly unaccountable for it.
As has been proven with energy, rail, travel etc if you put it into private hands their main concern is shareholders and profit, not service

There are no low-cost loans. What do you choose to fix first - sewage system before heating subsidy, the NHS, the social care system, education, war in Ukraine - what are your priorities? They are all in desperate need of cash. I haven't even mentioned the trains or the roads and whilst people aren't moving efficiently productivity is in the toilet too! We really are in a terrible state and we keep voting in the same broken talentless Gov run by zealots - and yet you think getting the Gov to run the water companies would help? It's a pipe dream. Brexit has been a massive distraction, ministers not chosen on talent but chosen on their commitment to Brexit - it's been a shit show - will the electorate kick them out and will labour be any better - there is no magic money tree, tough decisions need to be made and for some reason, UK Gov are not good at taking them.

My civil engineer dh was involved in the water sector for a while. When it was nationalised there was in fact not nearly enough investment in the infrastructure, which is why Victorian water/sewage pipes are still needing to be replaced.

I wish it were not the case, but some of us are old enough to remember when nationalisation (water and railways) was most definitely NOT a byword for efficiency. I’m far from pro privatisation, but I just wish we could be sure that re-nationalisation would mean efficiency and adequate investment - not a case of doing it all on the cheap.

Hear hear. Nationalisation was hardly known for its success!

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bee187fe-7fa6-11ed-9454-2989524d6944?shareToken=162f665de028ab20ae165e534e58d803
Topical article. Whatever your view on nationalisation, the industry certainly needs more regulation.

OP have you got your water back on again - this truly is a dreadful situation, can;t imagine how hard it is for the people affected.

In other news, the gov you want to take over the running of the water industry has just agreed to push back the timetable for dealing with sewage and pollution in our waterways by 36 years!! Not that the timetable of 2027 was very achievable but 2063 is slack and it isn't even coming out of their budget, can you imagine how long it would take if The Treasury were having to foot the bill - My Sharkey must be feeling somewhat deflated.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/dec/22/target-date-for-cleaning-up-waterways-in-england-is-moved-back-by-36-years