Can a 4 yo be ‘nasty’?

[Cinnabomb]

My friends now 4 year old seems to be a nasty, vicious little boy. I know I shouldn’t think of a child that way, so here is my question - is it possible for a child that young to be nasty/ vicious by nature or is it just parenting? He has been like it since about age 2.5 as long as we’ve known them, but toddler bolshyness seems to have made way to targeted attacks. Examples-
actively seeking out children to hurt them (eg in a park/ soft play going to find ‘Toby’ and when he does pushes him to ground and hits him until he is pulled off.

• frequently hurts other children but has a really nasty look on his face when doing so and seems to chose ways that inflict high damage eg Tries to slam childrens arms in doors, stamp on their fingers, push downstairs, stab their eyes with sticks, etc usually unprovoked

I guess im not describing it very well but it’s just he has a really vicious look on his face when he does it. I currently have a 2.5yo who is no dream and often have to make sure she isn’t too rough, but it seems standard toddler over enthusiasm and not horrible intent. Similarly we had another friends child who was a pusher but again he didn’t seem nasty when doing so. I could understand the odd hitting incident if someone snatched a toy or something but this just seems a bit odd. He is nice to his brothers tho?

parent of this child does tell him off but has multiple kids/ is usually distracted so tends to yell things vaguely from a distance. Doesn’t ever go and get him/ intervene etc.

doesnt seem like to have any obvious ND traits, parents not concerned. Other siblings don’t do this. Very very much doubt any abuse at home (as much as you can guess these things).

I do think some kids have a nasty streak and enjoy upsetting others.

I had a friendship I had to call time on as her daughter who was then aged 4 was so horrid to my dd and the dc of other friends and said friend would never reprimand her for it.

this girl would purposely take the things other kids were playing with and throw them out of their reach and laugh in their face, take food from them and throw it on the floor and stamp on it. That sort of thing.

the final straw was when we were at a friends and I heard screaming coming from the hall. Rushed out to find my dd clinging on to the banisters while this girl was trying with all her might to push my dd down the stairs. These were steep Victorian stairs with a tiled floor at the bottom, my dd could have been seriously hurt. The friend said nothing. Didn’t even tell her dd off. So that was it, I couldn’t put my dd in danger anymore.

I’ve met other kids who are a bit spirited. One girl at dance who used to love to push the other girls over etc. but nothing like this girl. I often wonder what she’s like as a teenager now. Whether she turned out fine or whether the nastiness continued. So yeah, I think little kids can be nasty, but often it’s made worse by poor parenting like in the case of my daughter x friend.

Yer definitely seems in both cases the parents perhaps haven’t stamped out the behaviour. But his older brother is ‘boisterous’ but doesn’t seem nasty in the same way…

My niece was exactly the same as the 4yo in the OP, from a younger age. My DSis always used to say 'well they must have done something to her first'. Which was nonsense. She was a foot taller than her peers and literally couldn't walk past another kid without punching them. Regularly physically attacked my kids who were a few years older. She's almost an adult now and apparently hasn't grown out of it.

Having distracted parents who are not meeting his emotional needs likely resulting in this negative behaviour, firstly towards those he feels are getting what he needs and secondly in an attempt to get some kind of interaction from parents. Poor kid.

I know a child who has been “nasty” since starting school (Sept born though so 5 - which didn’t help as he was the biggest and strongest from the start)

Year 4 and he’s still like it. School can’t accept that some children can be calculating in their unkindness to others rather than just thoughtless.

Yes they can be feral little buggers. He’ll need very active parenting.

My cousin was like this, he was constantly attacking other kids, breaking things. I remember seeing him swing a seatbelt buckle into his infant brother's face when their mum wasn't looking, he was so pleased with himself about it.

Roll on 20 years and he's in prison.

I'm sure there are some children who enjoy causing pain to others, and discover this at a young age.

But out of all the children I've known, I've never seen the behaviour you describe except where the parenting was poor. We had to stop seeing one friend whose son definitely liked to hit, but then lots of children do - it's just that this one wasn't forced to stop it.

Seems to be parenting? If parent doesn’t actively remove child when they poke someone’s eyes, how will child learn? Parent just shouts ‘don’t do that!’. No consequences.

if you think about it - the child has probably been left alone with siblings a lot as a big, busy household. Older Siblings probably do these things to child (eg push him when he approaches their toys or books). Child may copy this behaviour. No one intervenes as adults are too busy. Adults may have been able to give more attention when older siblings were younger - so they may know not to do this behaviour outside home - but this younger child may not. I’m assuming a lot of stuff here - but I can see it plausibly as a result of parenting. Doesn’t help the behaviour though… which is very problematic.

I think most of the time it’s either parenting or situational, but yeah, I’m pretty sure that for a small number of kids they are just unpleasant, and from the outside you can’t always tell which it is. Either way I’d be avoiding this child like the plague, because regardless of what’s causing it, he sounds dangerous to other children.

YANBU.
Met several nasty small children, who are either adults now and still a horrible piece of work or an older child who is still horrible.
I know someone whose 4 year old pushed his 3 year old sister over because he felt like it and said he justwantedto get past. His mum told his sister it was an accident never mind. His face was so smug! Still like it at 6. Rules don't apply to him. He'll still be like it 8. 10. 16. 20.

Yes, if it hasn’t been parented out at toddler stage.

Some parents not-so-secretly think aggression is an advantage in life. Others can’t be bothered, which is latent hostility to the child.

And, just to add, it could be both, it could be poor parenting/situation plus an innately unpleasant child. One thing being true doesn’t preclude the other. This applies to everyone, you can have great parents and an ideal family background and still be a horrible person, or you could be really badly raised from a terrible background and be a lovely person. All things are possible.

I've known a couple of children who have seemed this way. Both have grown up to be quite unpleasant adults (one in prison currently). There is also a child in my family who is like this now and I expect them to go the same way. Parents seem oblivious tbh which doesn't help.

@Namenic that is a very astute point and makes sense about the older kids at home, as they definitely are ‘boisterous’ - 4 boys and mum has a “boys will be boys” attitude. He is 2nd youngest but the older 2 aren’t like that. Youngest a baby but his behaviour preceded arrival of baby.

Glad I’m not being jumped on for being ‘precious’ or judgemental!

parent of this child does tell him off but has multiple kids/ is usually distracted so tends to yell things vaguely from a distance. Doesn’t ever go and get him/ intervene etc.

And there's the problem

So but of a split opinion with some thinking it is just down to parenting

I think some children have to be actively taught empathy, and if the parents dont realize it in time, and the child is boisterous, they can grow up being oblivious to their physical and emotional wake. If then that behavior isnt checked then they can start getting a thrill from their actions which escalates it.

There’s plenty of time yet OP, this is AIBU after all.

I think that developing empathy and kindness comes at different ages. I don't think many/any 4 year olds are inherently cruel, but they can behave in a way that is unkind and hurtful and without adult guidance on this may keep those behaviours for some time..

Some children need a lot more time and energy spent teaching them societal norms and acceptable behaviour. If the parents don't do this because their older children didn't require this intervention, then those boundaries will never be learnt. A tiny minority would still continue with the difficult behaviour, but almost all would respond to more active parental intervention.

We are not blank slates when we are born - we all have temperaments. So yes, some people are nasty.

My friend’s DS was like this, larger than other kids, really aggressive and seemed to enjoy being mean. He had a terrible reputation with other parents (he was in my DS’s class). Friend would chastise him weakly but never follow through. However, aged six he and DS got an absolutely incredible primary teacher - warm and kind but strict. He adored her and she taught the whole class empathy and how to be gentle. She turned him completely around. Wish I knew exactly how! 🤷‍♀️ He’s a delightful older kid.

I think it's a combination, the child initially is often just a bit rough in a very typical toddler way, then poor parenting - often in an over indulgent "my little darling would never do that" way, rather than a "can't be bothered" way, means that they are not taught that their behaviour is wrong. My DD has been bullied for years by a child who obviously enjoys causing pain and upset - as witnessed by many - to the extent that she is starting at a new school next term. The old school are useless but mostly struggle with total denial from the parents that their child is doing anything even remotely wrong, and every incident is someone else's fault. How will that child ever learn? I fully expect to hear of their criminal activities as they get older, and actually that makes me sad, as I truly believe that with different parenting they would have been ok.