For all those who support the strikes

[chopc]

Where do you think the money will come from for all the pay rises? Are you personally willing to pay more tax?
We all saw during the pandemic it is the poorly paid essential workers that kept the country going and they totally deserve more money than the claps they got. However will YOU be prepared to contribute to the pot ?

If not where do you think the govn will find more money from?

The MPs pay rises would make zero difference to the NHS.

Foreign Aid has been cut drastically, much is used to fund asylum seekers here in the UK now.

Yes cutting FA is a disgrace, its totally immoral to take money from the worlds poorest and i assume you re happy to see FA to Ukraine cut too.

We've food banks because of 12.5 years (on going) of Austerity and a shit tax system.

Absolutely not! You have no idea of the ramifications of such a statement. Given that the UK is like only at 11 on the global corruption index (out of around 180), chances are the new elite would be manifestly worse. Potentially even a LOT worse.

I wouldn’t say I agree with this current round of strikes, but I do support people’s right to strike. It is an important check and balance. Can’t
blame people for pursuing what is in their own interests.

@Dervel - if you read my other posts, you would see I didn’t say I wanted to create another elite, I said it was time for one, which is different. I have a very clear idea of the ramifications of such a statement. I do think that this is what will happen if things continue, globally and locally, as they are. There is zero sense of control over the global situation, so we are all massively in the shit with more and more countries imploding or destroying their neighbours, with great progress having been made in recent years to corrupt and weaken checks and balances in formerly stable, democratic countries. And whilst the current Prime Minister is an improvement on Truss and Johnson, that is setting the bar phenomenally low. Our leadership need to recognise the dangers are broader and deeper than they are currently showing any public signs of comprehending. Instead, we get the same old rhetoric about keeping control over the workforce and refusing to even listen and respond appropriately to patently justified anger.

@Dervel

Its an index that doesn't include money laundering or foreign bribery.
I'm not quite sure of its worth, i think we can all agree that the UK & its political parties, allowed itself to be used by Russia over the last 10 or 15 years, yet none of that "corruption" counts toward the UKs score.

Dervel you make good points. A ‘new elite’ sounds non democratic and a bit student-y imo

Negligence claims on the nhs cost 13 billion per year. How will we afford to pay for an increase in claims due to the inability of the nhs to work safely under its current conditions?

Am unhealthy workforce is also expensive. People who say, where will the money come from? presumably don’t believe in making investments, repairing roofs,etc?Lots of things cost money in the short term but pay for themselves in the long term. Good healthcare isn’t just something that’s nice to have as a luxury. It’s a necessity, and not having it incurs all kinds of costs.

Well anyone can be an MP, so nothing stupid about it. Why don’t you stand in the next election, or are you just wanting to stand on the sidelines moaning?

@MarshaBradyo - invading Ukraine and trying to destroy it; storming the Capitol building; destruction in Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, etc; protesting in Iran; a far right government in Israel; locking down China for years then opening the floodgates; chaos caused by unprecedented climatic events; thinking it’s a good idea to cote in a Prime Minister with a proven track record of lying - you think these are caused by people being “studenty”? Of course a new elite would bloody undemocratic. I think the situation is a bit more serious than “studenty” implies!

It could be the phrase ‘new elite’ it lacks the nuance of each of those events. Which I’d separate out in terms of what’s going on.

Yes we are seeing flux but over history there’s been many events of the same magnitude.

I could talk with someone who wants to discuss any of these in a serious way but perhaps the ability is decreasing with language used. I’m interested though what frames your view? Ie types of things you read etc

Maybe it’s a matter of the narrative we’re used to (I’m a big radio listener and feel comfortable with economic and political analysis from a range of people for example). Do you gravitate to something to inform your view? Not being snide it sometimes helps understanding.

@MarshaBradyo - I was at Oxford at the same time as Liz Truss and have worked both in the private sector in the City and in state schools, know and have mixed with, and still mix with, people from a huge variety of different backgrounds, read a variety of different news sources of varying shades of political opinion but never on social media (my dh and I share very different political opinions, as did my own parents, so I am very used to differing opinions), and listen to radio 4. You are attempting to be patronising.

Not really. I was interested in hearing more, but up to you.

Happy to leave it there.

Don’t ever assume. It’s makes an ass of you and me.
You’re also wrong to assume anything to do with me and what I agree with. Heaven forbid someone disagrees with you. You’re a wee charmer aren’t you ?

Oh and another thing. Cutting MPs pay rises might not make a shred of difference. But they could set an example maybe? What MPs can have a significant pay rise each year, yet they’ve told the public sector for 15 years there’s not money left. Is that fair?

Regarding foreign aid- I agree with it but the money should be spent wisely and be accountable. Not sent to corrupt governments, who syphon the money away. The money should be targeted. And yes we should be funding Ukraine with military equipment.
What about the UK government going to poorer countries and over seeing foreign aid spending making sure it goes to who it should?

Quite, agree on all of that

No assumption needed, this is what you said to the pp who said use the Foreign Aid budget i.e use it to spend directly on ourselves.

Now you've done an about turn with "i agree with Foreign Aid"

I can't agree or disagree with you, as you keep changing your mind or you don't know what the FA budget is used for & how it reduces poverty and helps women and girls get an education?
It should be increased back to pre Austerity levels, esp as GDP is down and inflation is up.

But increasing pay doesn’t mean more inflation. As Mick Lynch said, we already have high inflation and that’s without pay rises. So we can’t blame higher inflation on paying people more.

It’s funny how lots of truck companies managed to give some HgV drivers big pay rises with staff shortages. Lots of people I know of went from £12 and hour to £15 an hour reasonably fast.

I’d absolutely pay more tax money if it means I can send my kids to decent schools, get an ambulance when I call 999.

Id pay a grand a year even more if it meant I could make society better for everyone and I’m not a high earner.

The bosses of the rail companies have been creaming tax payers money for three decades now, whilst stripping the bones out of the service. Yet funny how there’s no money yet CEOs of rail operators can earn £400k a year plus bonuses…
The Network rail CEO earns £600k.
Even with covid and almost two years of restrictions with minimal passengers.

I also worry about unmanned stations and trains, particularly at night. We’ve already seen the shocking things that can happen to female traveler’s. How can we put a price on someone’s safety ? Having a train guard on a train and a platform assistant is a choice by the rail companies. Or not to have one I should say. Is woman’s safety not important to train companies?

If I’m totally wrong I accept this and apologise in advance.

1000% agree with you, you aren't wrong.

@MarshaBradyo - I think what frames my opinion is I feel we have a perfect storm of events, not a lot of isolated issues. We are now reliant on the global economy and also therefore more threatened by global events than ever before. We can’t pull up our metaphorical drawbridges and keep the rest of the world out, nor will things go back to “normal” if we hold out for long enough. Never in history have we had this level of flux and then all settled back down to the status quo. I also feel we have had too long a period of “divide to rule,” which is a wholly unhealthy way of maintaining control and, as a result, the level of anger it has built up is not going to be contained by failing adequately to engage with those with excellent reasons to be angry.

Having been fed a variety of differing political views throughout my life, I can see merits and flaws in all of them, but the view that affected me more than any other was the one my father expressed to me many years ago: if you don’t even believe humans are capable of becoming kinder, less aggressive and unnecessarily competitive, then it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. Too many people have become cynical and now believe, after years of inadequate, divisive and frequently nasty political manouevering, that all leaders are self-serving and corrupt, so they might as well vote for a fairly openly corrupt, self-serving liar in the hope he can fiddle the system to somehow benefit the entire country, or at least focus his corruption on benefiting a different group this time, without being held back by diplomatic compromises and what the politicians have specifically told people are pettifogging officials and red tape. People are suffering a loss of faith in entire systems, not specific leaders, and that is frightening and destabilising.

Not just specific leaders.

From the 150,000 vacancies currently in the NHS. Reduce the headcount, increase pay to stabilise and attract skills , then overhaul the administration and silo ways of working to gain efficiencies.

Break away from hospital centric care and transition to person centric care.

It would take time, but would deliver a better service for all age groups given the changing population and needs of the UK.

Refusing to pay more now, is senseless. The NHS needs investment Operations Managers, not politicians.

I appreciate you came back to post as it’s interesting. I’m
not sure I agree fully but need to think about it a bit

Only yesterday there was a news article about a relative of an MP who set up an agency to supply nurses. These agencies are bleeding the NHS and Education dry.

No wonder qualified teachers and nurses are signing up to them. And they only work set hours.

There is a rule and tendency in many systems, called Price's law or the Mathew effect. There are many examples in nature and in human-made systems.

I think they should charge people for wasting appointments by just not turning up. Even £5 would be a good prevention and would save the NHS a lot of money.

But yes, I would pay more tax for this, and I'm not rolling in it by any means. If we lose the NHS, we will all be fucked apart from the mega rich.

I agree with you on the lack of pay. However, if the service is crap now, how will raising pay resolve the issue. You are still rewarding incompetence and a failing system.
As the adage says throwing good money after bad.
The crux of the matter is some services are better provided by private entities, (The post office) and (some rail workers' jobs are becoming automated), and some ideals the services are based on are no longer fit for purpose re the NHS.