To expect to graduate?

[surreygirl1987]

I spent almost 6 years working on my PhD. I was supposed to graduate last summer, but it was during that intense heatwave (the hottest day in fact) when a 'national emergency' had been declared, and the University said we could defer our graduation to the December ceremony to avoid travelling. For context, it's almost 200 miles from my home to the university. I deferred as would have been madness to travel (I posted on here st the time for advice actually).

The December graduation ceremony dates were published quite a bit later. My ceremony was put as mid-week. As I teach full-time in a school, I couldn't attend (would have had to have had more than 1 day off for it due to the distance). I emailed the university a few weeks ago asking if I could graduate next summer instead (I phoned up first and was told yes that's fine, but to email this email address). I have purchased my hood, and paid for photography (for last summer but they said they'd honour it due to the heatwave circumstances).

I have just had a reply (ironically on the day my graduation should have taken place) refusing that request, saying I've basically missed my chance to graduate.

My question is, AIBU to challenge this? I know it's just a ceremony, and I didn't even attend my Masters one, but I've put almost 6 years into this doctorate and am genuinely proud of having completed it. Does anyone on here work in this area of a university, and can you advise if there's anything I can do to be allowed to attend the summer graduation ceremony?

Or, if you think I'm being unreasonable for asking to graduate then, feel free to say. At the moment I think I should be allowed to graduate next summer, but I'm happy to be persuaded otherwise. Thanks.

YABU. Well done on your PhD but of course there has to be a limit; generally there are capacity issues around graduation, and the graduation needs to pertain to those who have just completed their programmes, or else it doesn't make sense, and where would the cut off be?

I think it's a bit disrespectful to the University that you are not making the December date work. It's a once-off, a special occasion & you it was happening.

(I work at a University).

Agree nothing to lose by asking once more, but that there has to be a system and allowing limitless rescheduling of graduations doesn't work

However, I also wanted to add that I did go to my PhD graduation and just like the other milestones of the PhD that you imagine to be joyful, it was a bit underwhelming. It doesn't give the uncomplicated "hurrah I did it, it's over!" nor take away that lingering sense of "what the fuck was all that about", in my experience. Perhaps because the whole process is so knackering and protracted (I did it while working and shared parenting, in my 30s - perhaps it's different if younger and fewer responsibilities).

I'm not saying I regret going, just that it might not warrant lifelong regret if you aren't able to go in person.

YANBU to be disappointed, but I don't think you'll be allowed to defer just because you want to. I work in a university but don't deal with graduations so maybe I'm wrong but I doubt it.

Your school are giving you the day off so you wouldn't even have grounds to appeal I wouldn't have thought, you'll have to either make the most of it or graduate in absentia.

No. The OP should have submitted her PhD before a certain date if she wanted to graduate in December, or after that date if she wanted to graduate in the summer. She decided to submit her PhD after the cut off date so that she could graduate in summer.

The university administrators won't know that she technically could have submitted and graduated earlier. In their system it will show her original graduation date as being last summer.

OP, I went to my PhD graduation and was underwhelmed, but I can see why you'd want to go. Could you find another way to mark the occassion? Could you and your husband get a babysitter and go for a fancy dinner to celebrate? Or with a group of friends? Or if you have family who can look after your kid(s) maybe DH and you could go away for a night? I have much better/fonder memories of the posh/romatic dinner my DH and I had after my graduation then the graduation ceremony itself.

Or if you want to make anothe attempt at attending: could you ask your supervisor or head of department to put in a request on your behalf?

Sorry but at my Uni (I work in Registry), you’ll have now graduated in absentas. You would technically graduate at the first opportunity after you complete; or else you’d gave people wanting to attend a ceremony years after they finished. Normally it’s one opportunity, and if you can’t make it, it’s a shame, but that’s how it is.
For example, the students who finished during the pandemic, they weren’t able to attend a formal ceremony, which was awful, but they had a virtual ceremony instead. I’d suggest that you go and get some photos done, and have a different celebration.
Congrats on your doctorate.

Is everyone missing the key point here. The uni said over the phone it was ok to defer, and to email and we'll confirm. Then on the day of the event they emailed to say "sorry, no". That's unacceptable to change their mind like that, I can't believe anybody is supporting that behaviour from them.

This is my understanding of how it works at my current institution. You graduate in person or in absentia at the first available ceremony. Though my university did offer an ‘extra’ in person ceremony for those who graduated online during Covid.

The uni offered a deferral from summer to December. OP then asked to defer yet again, a few weeks before when admin is busy dealing with a lot of things, and got a late reply saying no. That's unfortunate but they can't keep deferring forever. To be offered one deferral was unusual and good on them in the circumstances. I think OP didn't understand that deferring wasn't a standard allowance.

We travelled into London for DD2's Masters ceremony on the hottest day last year. No air con at the venue either. I don't remember the government advising against travel and the university made it quite clear the ceremony was going ahead… DD2 was very keen to go as she had missed her under-graduate ceremony so we did. It was hot, but fine.

That said @surreygirl1987 , I think if you were told one thing over the phone and then later a different thing by email it's worth getting in touch with the university to point that out, and to say that you have incurred costs on the basis of what you were told over the phone.

As your school were willing to give you the day off why not just travel up the evening before and then travel back the afternoon/evening after the ceremony? 200 miles a day is manageable.

The uni didn't change its mind. They allowed her to defer to the December ceremony. Nobody is 'supporting that behaviour from them' because 'that behaviour' didn't happen, you made it up.

I also work in a University and our graduation ceremonies went ahead on the hottest day of the year and were some of the busiest we have had!

Our winter graduation ceremonies are in January and the cut off for people being entered for that and confirming their attendance is late November time, so for a December graduation I would imagine that the deadline is even earlier. You say you emailed them 'a few weeks ago' but was that after their cut-off date?

I've just checked the graduation FAQ's on our website and it says this: Graduands who cannot attend their allocated ceremony date and time, will graduate in absentia (graduating but not attending a graduation ceremony at all). This means you will not be able to attend another graduation ceremony.

asking if I could graduate next summer instead (I phoned up first and was told yes that's fine, but to email this email address).

I think this is the line causing confusion. While OP took this as agreement she could graduate next summer, really it was probably an administrator being unsure of the protocol & referring OP on to someone else, correctly.

OP doesn't like the final answer, but it's a fair one.

As others mentioned, lots of students had no graduation ceremony during the pandemic, along with many other signify any events that couldn't take place in that 2 year period.

OP, you need to organise yourself & go, if you want to that much.

I've skipped most of the thread. I'm surprised by the answers I saw early on though. Surely it costs the university nothing to agree to this? They're agreeing to OP being on stage for a few seconds at a ceremony? It seems incredibly petty to even argue about this.

Have I misunderstood what's involved in a graduation? I didn't go to mine, because I have no interest in ceremony.

It's one thing to have a rule that prevents a few hundred bachelor of hotel-keeping students messing a university around, but to treat a Phd student the same way... ?

If OP has withdrawn from the ceremony too close to the date, her name is probably published in the graduation record and booklet, her degree document has been sorted and all the admin has been done. I can only imagine the administrative challenges in changing the processes for one student. There have been two chances to graduate and OP wants to move it again because it is easier for her. It doesn't work that way. We don't get to choose when we graduate. We graduate at our assigned ceremony. If we can't, we get posted the degree and documents.

You cant keep withdrawing from ceremonies and then expecting to crash the next one! You keep saying that it's too far to get to, that's not going to change. If it was that important to you to go you would have made it work. Just graduate in absentia.

I can only imagine the administrative challenges in changing the processes for one student.

I thought I'd have a go at imagining this. The person who agrees to it sends an email to someone reading out names and ask him to add a name to a list. OP gets to have some photos taken of herself on stage with a gown. None of the other stuff needs to be changed/done.

The type of university might make a difference. A small private college might find this easier than one graduating thousands. Deferring graduation ceremonies is just not done though (apart from this one exceptional circumstance). You're there or you're graduated in absentia.

If it helps OP, I have three degrees and never managed a graduation yet.

Undergrad 2019, got pregnant in final year and my due date was three days before my graduation date so referred to the next summer. Then covid hit, no graduation in 2020 or 2021, by 2022 I was pregnant again with a due date two weeks after the graduation date (and I was in a wheelchair by the second trimester anyway and really unwell).

Masters in 2020 - Covid cancellation, no deferral, just cancelled

PGCE in 2021 - Covid cancellation, deferred to the autumn (when the entire cohort could go because we were all bloody teaching).

My plan is to just book the gowns and go for a photoshoot for all of them - but I'm waiting until I'm back down to the weight I'd like to be so I look good in the photos haha.

I also hired a gown for a photo shoot. Though only for the last absentia graduation. The first two in absentia graduations passed without any fanfare and a tube with degrees in the post.

I didn't go to the last one because the number of tickets allocated would have meant I'd have to pick and choose which of my kids were allowed to come. I wasn't prepared to do that, so just didn't walk.

Would have been nice if my DH, whose PhD graduation I went all out for, had done something to recognise the achievement, but such is life.

It does seem a bit perverse to have a PGCE graduation in the middle of the autumn term @fairylimes! Perhaps they were trying to cut back on costs so timed it deliberately 😃

Sorry why is a PhD student any different to any other graduate? Each has earned their degree and should be treated equivalently.

Such a sneery post.

It's not about cost.

It's about administration & organisation. You need a clear set of rules that all students adhere to, or how would you stipulate when students might graduate or not?

In the same way when you finish secondary school, you have the graduation at the time, it doesn't include students from previous years who weren't there on the day.

The graduation is a formal ceremony marking a particular cohort of students and is run as such.

If you did actually allow students to defer for longer periods, you'd be trying to organise and store parchments, ensure sufficient space (which is already at a premium) and manage duration. There is a cost and time implication in that part.